UKPC Norwich for not parking within the bay - NTK - now received advice please

cazyp

Hi
Pets at home was visited today on a shared retail park today and the van parked across the bay line into another bay to get stuff out of the side door without hitting the car next door.
They came back a few minutes later to a parking charge notice..
I've read the newbies section.
Am I right in thinking keeper now waits 26 days then appeal online using the BPA template as the KEEPER?
Do they give any info re the actual reason it was parked across the bay line?

Also the charge notice shows the issue time and the 'time first seen' as exactly the same time of 10:02. I always thought wardens etc were required to wait a couple of minutes? (Probably wrong!)

Anyway any other advice would be helpful.
Thanks

Quentin

Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving.


You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving


The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts against you


Follow the advice in the newbies faq on how and when to appeal - send the appropriate template in as is

cazyp

Hi
Edited to remove details of who was driving. Cheers.
So no point appealing to their common sense as to why the van was parked outside the bay?
Do you think Pets at Home would help as its a shared retail park I don't know the Landowner?

Quentin

Yes - complain to the retailer (again, all covered in the newbies faq)

cazyp

They complained to the Pets at Home store manager who said they have no authority to cancel or ask UKPC to cancel tickets as its a shared retail car park. Perhaps they should try head office..

I was really just asking for confirmation that they're following the newbies advice correctly and we're right in thinking they now wait 26 days then appeal online using the BPA template as the KEEPER?

Many thanks

cazyp

Just a thought - the charge was issued at 10:02 and they have a receipt showing they completed their purchase by 10:05. They didn't arrive until 10:00 and there was no sign readable from the van.
So would the 'Grace Period' be worth throwing in as well eventually?

cazyp

Email PDF received below from UKPC after the template 1st stage keeper appeal letter. Firstly is this standard AND acceptable under the CoP?

Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above parking charge.
In order to make a final decision regarding your appeal, please provide the name and full postal address of the driver to our Appeals Department within fourteen days of the date of this letter.
Please note we must liaise with the driver directly and by not providing the driver's details you will be accepting liability for the parking charge.
We ensure that signage containing the terms and conditions of parking is ample, clear, visible and in line with the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice to ensure the driver is bound by them when they enter and remain on site, so that all users of the car park are obliged to follow these terms and conditions of parking. It is settled law that a driver is deemed to have accepted the terms and conditions of parking by the act of parking in the car park.
Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received. At this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided.
Further correspondence can be sent by visiting our website at ukpc or by post to the address overleaf. Please ensure that if sending evidence by post that you include the parking charge reference number and vehicle registration.
The parking charge has been on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the reduced rate of £60.00.
PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER. UKPC REGULARLY TAKES MOTORISTS TO COURT WHO IGNORE THEIR PARKING CHARGES. PLEASE SEE: FOR FURTHER

Secondly, the NTK (link below) has been received withing the time frame allowed.
The questions I have are as follows but need help please to see if they are points worth mentioning or we've got the wrong end of the stick at POPLA stage ref Schedule 4 paragraphs 8 and 9 of the PoFA

1. The email above states the charge is on hold while under appeal at £60, the NTK doesn't show the 'discounted' amount. (No decision on the appeal or POPLA code has been issued yet.)

2. It doesn't identify the creditor or that the 'creditor' will be entitled to recover the charge from the registered keeper.

3. It must "State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when"
The ticket was a window PCN but the NTK says it was 'issued to the driver' and doesn't repeat the info in the notice about paying the charge and when..


Any help at all with the POPLA appeal would be great please.
NTK pics below.

edit - can't add them as I'm a new user but just add www at the start for a direct link to the photos of the NTK

s725.photobucket.com/user/corallus1/media/IMG_7355_zpsoyv38dv9.jpg.html

s725.photobucket.com/user/corallus1/media/IMG_7356_zpsk8o02zue.jpg.html

Quentin

Read up in the newbies faq thread on POPLA appeals.


Lots of near templates there with other links


Construct your appeal and put it up here for comment before sending it

Fruitcake

cazyp wrote: »

Email PDF received below from UKPC after the template 1st stage keeper appeal letter. Firstly is this standard AND acceptable under the CoP?

Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above parking charge.
In order to make a final decision regarding your appeal, please provide the name and full postal address of the driver to our Appeals Department within fourteen days of the date of this letter.
Please note we must liaise with the driver directly and by not providing the driver's details you will be accepting liability for the parking charge.
Lies
We ensure that signage containing the terms and conditions of parking is ample, clear, visible and in line with the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice to ensure the driver is bound by them when they enter and remain on site, so that all users of the car park are obliged to follow these terms and conditions of parking. It is settled law that a driver is deemed to have accepted the terms and conditions of parking by the act of parking in the car park.
Lies
Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received. At this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided.
Further correspondence can be sent by visiting our website at ukpc or by post to the address overleaf. Please ensure that if sending evidence by post that you include the parking charge reference number and vehicle registration.
The parking charge has been on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the reduced rate of £60.00.
PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER. UKPC REGULARLY TAKES MOTORISTS TO COURT WHO IGNORE THEIR PARKING CHARGES. PLEASE SEE: FOR FURTHER

Secondly, the NTK (link below) has been received withing the time frame allowed.
The questions I have are as follows but need help please to see if they are points worth mentioning or we've got the wrong end of the stick at POPLA stage ref Schedule 4 paragraphs 7 and 8 [STRIKE]and 9[/STRIKE] of the PoFA
Paragraph 6 explains
(1)
The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—
(a)
has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8;
so, you need to compare the NTD against para 7 and the NTK against para 8 and make sure they BOTH comply.

1. The email above states the charge is on hold while under appeal at £60, the NTK doesn't show the 'discounted' amount. (No decision on the appeal or POPLA code has been issued yet.)

2. It doesn't identify the creditor or that the 'creditor' will be entitled to recover the charge from the registered keeper.

3. It must "State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when"
The ticket was a window PCN but the NTK says it was 'issued to the driver' same thing and doesn't repeat the info in the notice about paying the charge and when..


Any help at all with the POPLA appeal would be great please.
NTK pics below.

edit - can't add them as I'm a new user but just add www at the start for a direct link to the photos of the NTK

s725.photobucket.com/user/corallus1/media/IMG_7355_zpsoyv38dv9.jpg.html

s725.photobucket.com/user/corallus1/media/IMG_7356_zpsk8o02zue.jpg.html

https://s725.photobucket.com/user/corallus1/media/IMG_7355_zpsoyv38dv9.jpg.html

https://s725.photobucket.com/user/corallus1/media/IMG_7356_zpsk8o02zue.jpg.html

photome

Thats a free car park. Didnt even know it was patrolled.

hope you win

cazyp

Hi
Finally got a POPLA code as the registered keeper on 13th Feb. Original appeal to UKPC was on the 19th Dec..

Now constructing the popla submission after receiving a refusal to the UKPC appeal directly.

Appeal is based on:
There were/are no signs on the entrance to the car park that was used - video evidence of this.

The van was in the car park less than 10 minutes total - shop receipt to compare with PCN plus statement from customer to say driver left his premises less than 5 minutes before the ticket was issued.

Free car park - no loss?

The van parked outside the bay to unload its side door. During the time the driver unloaded the side door, walked to read the closest lamp post UKPC sign then returned to the van to move into a bay before entering the shop the Charge Notice had been issued to the windscreen.

Does that sound reasonable?

Any help re specific parts of the cope of practice would be great
Thank you