Am I a first-time buyer or not?

Rich2808

bowlhead99 wrote: »

Wow, I don't blame you!

The pdf detailed guidance note published today is the one I built my comments on. The direct link to pdf got truncated by mse's URL handler so I have added a short link instead - but is the same one from your guidance note landing page link.

In the guidance they specifically refer to not having (alone or with others) previously acquired a major interest... And clarified that acquired can mean by gift.

And in the draft statute with explanatory text, as you say - they mean (a) not previously been a purchaser in a land transaction, (b) not previously acquired an equivalent interest in a dwelling situated in a country outside England, Wales, NI.

If we were to read the legal document and apply the guidance notes on top, two sources together - we might conclude:

1) If you *purchase* a property in England Wales NI you are definitely not entitled to relief ;

that's per the draft law change
Then

2) If you *acquire* (and acquire can include gift, inheritance, but not just purely being trustee without also being beneficiary) an interest outside England Wales NI, you are also not entitled, to catch all the people who might have already bought or been given foreign property, have a family home abroad or in Scotland where SDLT rules are different.

that's per the draft law change with the overlaid guidance about what we mean by acquire in this context.

Meaning, if OPs mother's estate was in England Wales NI, he only needs to follow (1), because (2) doesn't come into it because the property he would be talking about was not outside those three home countries so we don't even start to look at what "acquire" means.

You see my confusion - seems I am inheriting on the wrong side of the Irish border!. And it looks like the regulations approving the plans in parliament may not be entirely consistent with the guidance? I assume the lawyers need to clarify this!

You also see my point above - will this proposal cause couples to break up as single FTBs buying alone are eligible but married FTBs buying with a spouse who has bought before are ineligible. So much for Tory family values! Did no one think how that would look?!

MobileSaver

Rich2808 wrote: »

will this proposal cause couples to break up as single FTBs buying alone are eligible but married FTBs buying with a spouse who has bought before are ineligible. So much for Tory family values!

Huh?!?

Single FTBs buying alone are eligible. Married FTBs buying alone are eligible.

Un-married couples buying jointly where one is not FTB are not eligible. Married couples buying jointly where one is not FTB are not eligible.

The policy is entirely consistent regardless of marriage status so I don't see why anyone would break up or what this has to do with Tory family values...

ajm410

Thanks so much for all your answers.

FYI... I contacted a solicitor, who said that, so long as, at the time of the estate being settled, I did not acquire or become the legal owner of the estate by way of a Transfer into my name for any part of the property, I am still a first time buyer.


Wohoo!

Rich2808

ajm410 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your answers.

FYI... I contacted a solicitor, who said that, so long as, at the time of the estate being settled, I did not acquire or become the legal owner of the estate by way of a Transfer into my name for any part of the property, I am still a first time buyer.


Wohoo!

So according to your solicitor if you receive an inheritance in cash following the sale of a property by the executor - a property which you were left all or part of by the estate - you would still be eligible for the FTB stamp duty relief? In other words if all you received was the cash proceeds from the executor but your name was never put on the deeds or recorded as such at the land registry you remain a 'first time buyer'.

Seems slightly odd - as if you didn't acquire an interest in the property via the inheritance you would never have received the cash proceeds from its sale?

I am in this position - awaiting probate, not the executor, property to be sold immediately by the executor and half the proceeds then paid to me without my name on the deeds. I am still an FTB now - pending probate - but will I still be at the end for the purposes of the FTB stamp duty relief? The property I am inheriting is in Ireland - in the Republic - and subject to Irish CAT etc so it will be registered with the Irish revenue for tax purposes but not I assume with their land registry and i don't know if different rules apply there re deed transfers?

Perhaps I should use your solicitor?!!

davidmcn

Rich2808 wrote: »

So according to your solicitor if you receive an inheritance in cash following the sale of a property by the executor - a property which you were left all or part of by the estate - you would still be eligible for the FTB stamp duty relief? In other words if all you received was the cash proceeds from the executor but your name was never put on the deeds or recorded as such at the land registry you remain a 'first time buyer'.

Seems slightly odd - as if you didn't acquire an interest in the property via the inheritance you would never have received the cash proceeds from its sale?

I am in this position - awaiting probate, not the executor, property to be sold immediately by the executor and half the proceeds then paid to me without my name on the deeds. I am still an FTB now - pending probate - but will I still be at the end for the purposes of the FTB stamp duty relief? The property I am inheriting is in Ireland - in the Republic - and subject to Irish CAT etc so it will be registered with the Irish revenue for tax purposes but not I assume with their land registry and i don't know if different rules apply there re deed transfers?

Perhaps I should use your solicitor?!!

It's not all that complicated. If the property is never registered in your name as an individual then you're not an owner.

G_M

It's acually relatively rare for anyone to leave a named house to X in their will. Precisely because it can cause issues eg if there's no other money to pay debts like mortgage, inheritance tax etc. without selling that house.

Confusion often arises because the word 'property' in the context of a will and inheritance tax includes more than just the house. It includes all assets (the yacht, helicopter, diamond ring etc)

So X does not usually inherit the house under the will, he inherits perhaps everything (depending on wording), or perhaps the residue (ie everthing after the ring has gone to Y, and £5000 to a charity, etc).

So if the house is sold by the Executers while dealing with the Estate (perhaps to pay Inheritance Tax?), then X never owned the house - even if he then receives cash equal in value (or more, or less).

The house was owned by the deceased. And then by the deceased's Estate. And then by the new buyer to whom the Executers of the Estate sold the house.

Motivator

My father passed away in 2015 . Left my brother and me his estate which included a 50 percent share in a house . Due to the terms of the will , the third party had a two year grace before the house was sold . So my brother and myself where put on the land registry as part owners . Now the house has been sold and my wife and myself are in process of buying our first property . I now find that we can not get the discount due to this . How can this be right we paid tax on the inheritance . I did not own or live in the property any advice would be welcome.B]

G_M

Motivator wrote: »

My father passed away in 2015 . Left my brother and me his estate which included a 50 percent share in a house . Due to the terms of the will , the third party had a two year grace before the house was sold . So my brother and myself where put on the land registry as part owners . Now the house has been sold and my wife and myself are in process of buying our first property . I now find that we can not get the discount due to this . How can this be right we paid tax on the inheritance . I did not own or live in the property any advice would be welcome.B]

Except that you did (joint) own the propety.

Granted that ownership was subject to a restriction, as are many homes, and in this case the restriction was pretty significant, but none-the-less you owned a property through inheritance.

The inheritance tax is a seperate issue entirely. and I won't even ask about Capital Gains Tax........

Or.... never a 'beneficial owner'? Not something I'm very au fait with. Someone may know better.

Motivator

Motivator wrote: »

My father passed away in 2015 . Left my brother and me his estate which included a 50 percent share in a house . Due to the terms of the will , the third party had a two year grace before the house was sold . So my brother and myself where put on the land registry as part owners . Now the house has been sold and my wife and myself are in process of buying our first property . I now find that we can not get the discount due to this . How can this be right we paid tax on the inheritance . I did not own or live in the property any advice would be welcome.B]

Having checked the wording again https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/661728/8274_guidance_note_SDLT_relief_for_first_time_buyers.pdf It states a major interest in a property . What is classed as major.

kingstreet

ajm410 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your answers.

FYI... I contacted a solicitor, who said that, so long as, at the time of the estate being settled, I did not acquire or become the legal owner of the estate by way of a Transfer into my name for any part of the property, I am still a first time buyer.


Wohoo!

You're welcome!