Help Please! Parking Fine County Court Pack

pappa_golf

This request is sought simply because the matter is in our Client’s opinion relatively straightforward and the costs incurred by both parties for attending an oral hearing would be disproportionate.

A week later I've now been sent a county court pack asking me whether I wish to pay £250,


the initial invoice was for no more than £100 , it is muppet and co that are racking costs up , not you

pandorapandora

Hi all

They have paid their court fee and sent me their Witness Statement, I need to send mine by Thursday (I have started it over the weekend).

Their statement refers to the supporting documents of:

"i) The Agreement authorising my Company to manage parking on the relevant land (as
described therein and hereinafter referred to as !!!8216;the Relevant Land!!!8217;)
ii) The Sign (i.e. the Contract)
iii) The Site Plan
iv) Notices
v) Photographs of the incident"

The photographs of the incident do not even contain a photo of my car, just several photos of other cars, so I'm not sure how they are relevant. I admitted I was driving anyway (see previous posts), but my ticket was due to expire, I called them prior to expiration and was advised I could extend the ticket and given details how to do this, which I followed.

Can I post their statement here for your thoughts?

Thanks

Katie

nosferatu1001

At the END (END!!) of your WS, you lead in with a sentence sasying you also dont agree with the following from the C WS, whci hyou submit clearly wasnt written by a Witness at all.

Then you say e.g. para X v) purports to show photographs of the alleged incident, but instead do not show the D vehicle at all. You are unsure what this is trying to prove.

Yes of course you can post it here. Just remove identifying details.

EDIT: does the site "plan" actually match up with reality? A plan is just that - where they PLAN to have signs. Not where those signs ACTUALLY ARE (or were, at the time) CHECK IT.
Does the agreement work Can you see who signed it, are tehy authorised to do so, does it cover teh dates of the tickets, etc?

pandorapandora

Hi, sorry my fault, just found the photos of my car in the 40+ pages of stuff. It's all a bit overwhelming! The agreement between the company and the car park owner is from Jan '15 for 'twelve months from the Date of Agreement followed by a twelve month rolling termination continuing until termination is served by any party'.

1. Two witness statements - one for my case (scroll down), and a 'supplementary' one relating to 'various' (The Claimant was asked by the District Judge X to clarify its authority to issue parking charges and as such the Hearing was listed. I was present at the Hearing and confirm District Judge X was satisfied that the Claimant had such authority in the particular case(s) in question').

2. Photos - of the signage at the entrances to the car park and on walls inside, a birds eye view of the car park, photos of my car with ticket

3. Documents - a parking management service agreement, a copy of the windscreen ticket, copies of 4 letters sent to me by the parking company (I didn't receive all of these, I received 2 and responded to both), solicitors letter.

Their defence is below (identifiers removed) - took a while as it was a PDF and the format went wild on me exporting it.

---

Their Witness Statement

I, XXXXX, of XXXXX WILL SAY AS FOLLOWS:

1. I am the Employee of the Claimant Company (!!!8216;my Company!!!8217;) and I am duly authorised to make this statement on its behalf. The facts and matters set out in this statement are within my own knowledge unless otherwise stated and I believe them to be true. Where I refer to information supplied by others, the source of the information is identified; facts and matters derived from other sources are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

2. Exhibited to this Witness Statement at !!!8216;GSL1!!!8217; are following documents which my Company wishes to rely upon;

i) The Agreement authorising my Company to manage parking on the relevant land (as
described therein and hereinafter referred to as !!!8216;the Relevant Land!!!8217;)
ii) The Sign (i.e. the Contract)
iii) The Site Plan
iv) Notices
v) Photographs of the incident

3. The Defendant is liable for a parking charge relating to the parking of a vehicle on the Relevant Land in a manner so as to incur the same pursuant to the Contract (i.e. the Sign). Set out in the Schedule below are details of the parking charge;

PCN NUMBER DATE OF CHARGE LOCATION DESCRIPTION
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
Exceeded Time

The Defence
The Contract

4. My Company relies on the case of Parking Eye -v- Beavis [2015], in which it was accepted as an established principle that a valid contract can be made by an offer in the form of the terms and conditions set out on the sign, and accepted by the driver!!!8217;s actions as prescribed therein.

5. The signs on the Land are clear and unambiguous. By parking in the manner in which they did, the charge was properly incurred.

6. My Company doesn!!!8217;t dispute the Defendant may have paid for parking, however it is the
Defendant!!!8217;s obligation pursuant to the contract (the Sign) to ensure that they pay the correct fee for the length of their parking. At the time the charge was issued the Defendant failed to do so and as such incurred the charge, it is the responsibility as the driver to ensure the time on the ticket is not exceeded. If the defendant cannot return to their vehicle within the required time, they have the opportunity to purchase an electronic ticket through the !!!8216;Pay by Phone!!!8217; service whilst away from the vehicle, details of which are displayed in the car park.

7. It is clear from the photographic evidence that the ticket purchased had expired. The Defendant states that they made payment using the online system, however the Defendant has failed to include any evidence to back this up and there is no recorded further payment on my Company!!!8217;s online payment system. Exhibited to this statement is a copy of the PayByPhone records for this vehicle registration that shows no payment has been made on the date of the contravention.
There is also a copy of My Company!!!8217;s online records which also shows that no payment had
been made through PayByPhone or through our website directly.

8. It is an integral part of the parking scheme that a valid ticket is displayed as otherwise the
scheme would be unmanageable. If my Company were to waive one charge on the basis put
forward in the Defence it would open the floodgates to the waiver of many more charges,
making the parking management process that has been put in place entirely redundant.

The Defendant!!!8217;s Liability
9. The Defendant is pursued as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle pursuant to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (!!!8216;the Act!!!8217;) Paragraph 4(1) which states !!!8220;The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle!!!8221;.

10. Paragraph 2 of the Act states that; the !!!8220;keeper!!!8221; means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper.

11. The relevant Notice was sent to the Defendant in accordance with the Act and the Registered Keeper (the Defendant) failed to nominate who was driving the vehicle prior to these proceedings which is required under paragraph 5(2) of the Act.

Particulars of Claim
12. The Particulars of Claim contained sufficient information for the Defendant to be aware of what the claim relates to; namely; the date of the charge, the vehicle registration number, the Parking Charge Notice number, the amount outstanding, that it relates to parking charges; and that it is debt.

13. Further, prior to proceedings being issued the Defendant was sent notices in accordance with the Act and a Letter Before Claim. As such, the Defendant would have been aware of the charge which is the subject of this claim.

14. In any event, the Defendant would not have been able to defend in such detail as she has if the particulars of claim were insufficient.

Authority to enforce charges
15. As the contract is between my Company and the Defendant, my Company does have the
authority to enforce parking charges. However, both VCS v HM Revenue & Customs (2013) and Parking Eye v Beavis (CA 2015) made it clear that a contracting party need not show they have a right to do what they have promised in the performance of a contract, nor is (in the case of a parking operator) the agreement between Operator and Landowner of any relevance. In any event, and without concession, the Agreement exhibited to this Witness Statement evidences my Company!!!8217;s authorisation to operate / manage the Relevant Land on behalf of the Landowner.

16. Lord Justice Lewison commented in VCS v HM Revenue & Customs [2013] EWCA Civ 186;
(1) !!!8220;The Upper Tribunal!!!8217;s reasoning on this part of the case was that since VCS did not have the right under its contract with the car park owner to grant a licence to park, it could not have contracted with the motorist to grant such a right. In my judgment there is a serious flaw in this reasoning.

(2) The flaw in the reasoning is that it confuses the making of a contract with the power to perform it. There is no legal impediment to my contracting to sell you Buckingham Palace. If (inevitably) I fail to honour my contract then I can be sued for damages. On the stock market it is commonplace for traders to sell short; in other words to sell shares that they do not own in the hope of buying them later at a lower price. In order to perform the contract the trader will have to acquire the required number of shares after the contract of sale is made.
Moreover, in some cases a contracting party may not only be able to contract to confer rights over property that he does not own, but may also be able to perform the contract without acquiring any such right. Thus in Bruton v London and Quadrant Housing Trust [2000] 1 AC406 a housing trust with no interest in land was held to have validly granted a tenancy of theland to a residential occupier. The tenancy would not have been binding on the landowner, but bound the two contracting parties in precisely the same way as it would have done if the grantor had had an interest in the land.

(3) Thus in my judgment the Upper Tribunal were wrong to reverse the decision of the FTT on the question whether VCS had the power to enter into a contract. Having the power to enter into a contract does not, of course, mean that VCS necessarily did enter into a contract with the motorist to permit parking!!!8221;

The Charge
17. The charge sought is industry standard and is set at a rate so as to suitably satisfy my Company!!!8217;s legitimate interest. In the case of Parking Eye -v- Beavis [2015] it was held that an £85.00 charge was neither extravagant nor unconscionable. The Accredited Trade Associations of which parking operators must be a member in order to apply for DVLA data prescribe a maximum charge of
£100. My Company!!!8217;s charges are within this level. The charge is therefore not excessive.

18. The decision of the Supreme Court made it clear that the charges are not penal, nor do they have to be reflective of the parking operator!!!8217;s loss. Further, the charges can be set at a level that provides a deterrent effect.

Miscellaneous
19. Paragraphs 6, 7 & 8 are not responded to as they are not relevant to this claim or the

Defendant!!!8217;s liability.
20. The Defendant unsubstantiated assertion in respect of my Company!!!8217;s conduct is denied.

The Current Debt
21. In view of the Defendant not paying the charge within the 28 days allowed they are in breach of the contract. Breach of contract entitles the innocent party to damages as of right in addition to the parking charge incurred. Detailed below is a breakdown of these damages, which the Sign (the Contract) makes clear that damages will be sought and added to the value of the charge.

The maximum sum that is awardable is £60.00, which is the amount my Company are seeking.
£12.00 per letter sent to the Defendant following the breach of contract (4 letters) =
£48.00
Costs to obtain DVLA information = £5.35
Costs to operate, maintain and host high level security systems associated with keeper
data (includes hosting, staff time, equipment ECT) = £10
Costs associated with required Trade Accreditation = £0.23

22. In view of the Defendant not paying the charge the matter was passed to my Company!!!8217;s legal representatives, Gladstones Solicitors Ltd. The debt has, as a result of this referral risen as my Company!!!8217;s staff have spent time and material in facilitating the recovery of this debt. This time could have been better spent on other elements of my Company!!!8217;s business. My Company believes the costs associated with such time spent were incurred naturally as a direct result of the Defendant!!!8217;s breach and as such asks that this element of the claim be awarded as a damage.

The costs claimed are a pre-determined and nominal contribution to the actual losses.

Alternatively, my Company does have a right to costs pursuant to the sign (i.e. the contract).

STATEMENT OF TRUTH
I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

Fruitcake

This bit actually works against them.

(2) The flaw in the reasoning is that it confuses the making of a contract with the power to perform it. There is no legal impediment to my contracting to sell you Buckingham Palace. If (inevitably) I fail to honour my contract then I can be sued for damages. On the stock market it is commonplace for traders to sell short; in other words to sell shares that they do not own in the hope of buying them later at a lower price. In order to perform the contract the trader will have to acquire the required number of shares after the contract of sale is made.

In other words, you can pay for (further) parking after the ticket has expired.

Costs,

Costs to obtain DVLA information = £5.35
No, it's £2.50. They are lying.
Costs to operate, maintain and host high level security systems associated with keeper data (includes hosting, staff time, equipment ECT) = £10 That's a business operating cost and can't be claimed. The cost is incurred whether someone parks or not, pays or not.
Costs associated with required Trade Accreditation = £0.23 That's a business cost as well.


They are pursuing the keeper?

pandorapandora

Yes, I am the keeper of the car and parked it there.

I paid for three hours, and after two hours rang this company (have evidence) on their premium rate number (cost me as much as the parking!) to ask if I could extend the ticket. Was told I could, provided with a location number which I double checked with their rep and was directed to their website as I didn't want to read out my card number due to public location. Went to website, forgot password, the website auto-texted it to me (have evidence), paid for an extra hour, got back to car and had ticket on screen. Presumed mistake between operator checking ticket in windscreen but not online for top up.

Forgot about it then months later received letter - emailed them, got auto response. Nothing for months, then another letter so I rang them and was asked to email again. Did so, then next letter from solicitors and here we are! Turns out their representative provided inaccurate 5-digit location number BUT ON SAME STREET as their entrance, so she just made an admin error - right area, wrong car park. The number I was provided by her and the actual number of the car park are not similar so could not have been a typo on my behalf. The probability of anyone guessing a five-digit number is 1 in 59049, so I'd have been very lucky to guess one on the same street! I have never had any kind of experience like this before, it has totally stressed me out (and still is!) and my other half has said several times to just pay it and forget it, but as I know I've done nothing wrong I don't believe I should!

I now need to put my Witness Statement together and can easily state what happened, but referring to all of their legal contractual points and similar content is over my head but I'm determined to get this done!

Quentin

Have you previously identified the driver in your dealings with them?


If not, then urgently edit those details from #47

pandorapandora

Yes I have as I never thought to not do - I have been honest right through, confirming in response to their first letter exactly what happened as in my previous post, then receiving virtually the same letter asking for more money, responding again, then another letter from their solicitors, responded again with evidence, to which they said I had paid incorrectly (I paid as instructed by them!).

Quentin

OK - it's just they say they are pursuing you as keeper, not driver!

pandorapandora

Thanks and I really appreciate it. As it was their admin error I thought it was totally clear from the start and so never thought anything of it I said I parked there etc. It was 2016 and is still dragging on now. If I'd have known how stressed their error would have made me I would've just paid it in the first place despite being in the right, as it has caused me so much anxiety. Am hoping someone can help me with my Witness Statement and that in a few weeks I can finally put this to bed.