Wrong Calculation of Gas kWh

Diz_LFC

I've got a situation I'd like to share, to see if anyone else has been in a similar position or maybe help someone who is in a similar position. Sorry in advance for the long post.

I've just discovered that the calculation of my gas kWh is wrong!

I've been concerned by the usage of my gas for the last 18 months or so as it seems to have sky-rocketed over the last few years. I bought my house end of 2012 and in the first 2 years usage was about 11000kWh, which seemed about average for a 3 bed victorian terrace with 1 person living there, so I was ok with that. Then in 2015 my relationship with my partner got more serious and we were spending more time together. At this point the gas went to 19000kWh for the year, which I put down to her spending more time at my place and so having the heating on more. Then 18 months ago we got married and spent most of our time at my house until we sold hers at the end of 2016. In 2016 the gas usage went up to about 28000kWh and then this year (2017) to over 32000kWh!!!

These last 2 concerned me!! So I had the boiler checked out and serviced and I've been trying to cut down on gas usage where possible, but with no success. Then I was looking over my bills a couple of weeks ago, as it was time to switch, and trying to work out why the gas for the year was so high. Then I noticed the calculation EON use to convert the meter reading units to kWh.

This is: 93 units x 2.83 (to get cubic metres) x 1.02264 (conversion factor) x 39.4 (calorific value) ÷ 3.6 (to get kilowatt hours) = 2946 kWh

The words "to get cubic metres" stood out to me. I thought "I'm sure my gas meter readings are in cubic meters already"! When I checked my gas meter it said on it m3 (cubic meters)!! Then I noticed the letters "hcf" next to the units used value on my last bill. Searching for this I found it meant "hundreds of cubic feet"!! (The woman I spoke to at EON didn't even know what it meant!!)

I then remembered that when I last had my meters read by an engineer (EDF at this time), he said that the gas meter serial numbers didn't match up to his records and he said he would update it. When I checked the serial number on my last bill with that on my gas meter they didn't match!!

So I rang my current provider (EON) and explained. The woman I spoke to was very helpful once she understood. She took both serial numbers, checked them against my address and said that BOTH serial numbers were registered to my address! What seems to have happened is that the old gas meter (imperial meter measuring in cubic feet) was replaced with a new meter (metric meter measuring in cubic meters) before I bought the house (I think about 2010 from stickers on the meter), but the serial number for the old meter was not unregistered.

So it looks like my gas kWh has been calculated using cubic feet instead of cubic meters!! And I've been over paying since I bought my house!! About 2.83 times more over 5 years!!

Anyway, EON are sending out an engineer to investigate the meter and connections.
My previous provider (EDF) were also calculating it wrong, looking at my previous bills, and have said they will look into it. Hopefully I should be refunded in the next few weeks.

If my calculations from previous bills/meter readings/unit rates are correct, then it looks like it could be as much as £2000 over the 5 years.
Anyone know if I can claim interest or anything else back? Compensation?
Will also check they refund the VAT charges (5%) on the over payments too.

So, if you have a gas meter that measures in cubic meters (m3 on it) and see x2.83 in your kWh calculation or "hcf" by the units used, then you may be getting over charged!

FYI the kWh calculations are:
For gas meter readings in cubic feet (imperial gas meters):
kWh = gas meter units x 2.83 (to get cubic metres) x 1.02264 (conversion factor) x 39.4 (calorific value) ÷ 3.6 (to get kilowatt hours)

For gas meter readings in cubic meters (metric gas meters):
kWh = gas meter units x 1.02264 (conversion factor) x 39.4 (calorific value) ÷ 3.6 (to get kilowatt hours)

So the main difference is the x 2.83 to convert cubic feet to cubic meters. Also the calorific value may change from one bill to the next.

Cardew

There have been scores of cases - if not hundreds - on MSE of people being charged for cubic feet(100 cu ft = 1 imperial gas unit) instead of cubic metres and vice versa.

Once established you have been wrongly charged there shouldn't be any problem in getting refunded by your present supplier(Eon) for the time you have been with them. EDF might be a little more difficult.

As it is quite complicated to work out all the different rates over the years companies have tended to offer a rounded up figure.

House_Martin

It is usually quite obvious to the customer when a supplier gets it wrong on Imperial/metric mix ups.
It happens, as Cardew states, both ways .One can get a bill almost 3 times more, so say, a £100 quarterly bill is suddenly almost £300 and more rarely the other way when someone starts getting bills nearly a third less.
As a long time meter reader I find these occasionally. They are very upsetting for both parties. I have even had a woman burst into tears when I warned her that BG were misbilling her and her true bills should be 2.8 times more. I can spot the mis-bills when I view the meter and it does not correspond to the number of digits on my hand held computer..
With BG billing they use 4 digits for Imperial and 5 for metric. Eon I notice do not do this and can bill both types of meters with 4 digits only if the metric meter has nt reached over 9999 units. Eon should be using 5 digits all the time for metric meters.
I think Eon should use the same system as BG then at least the meter reader can spot the mistake and it does not carry on for years, that is always use 5 digits, to denote a metric meter not 4 digits
Correcting the mistakes are usually easily done and not disputed once the meter serial number is linked to the property
Personally I think that suppliers should give a generous compensation as well as a full refund. The stress and upset of these mistakes can be far reaching so much that I met a very elderly lady who was scared stiff to put the heating on because she could not afford the enormous bills. Even her summer gas bills were too much. I had to personally phone Scottish Power from her home to end her fear of switching the central heating on.
Some people could easily be so depressed that they would get suicidal and it can tip them over the edge.
Having to go the other way and repay a large amount back is just as upsetting.
These mistakes are just sloppy billing procedures and poor training of meter readers who should be able to spot the mistake and at least keep it short to less than a year.
Smart meters of course would end all these terrible mistakes

Andy_WSM

I'm in a similar position right now - except I am being charged ELEVEN times more than I should for gas!

Reason: I had a smart meter fitted with one company, moved to another company and the smart meter becomes dumb. The new company asked for a reading from the smart meter and I gave the call operator a choice of volume (Cubic Metres) or Energy (kWh) and they asked for the latter. When I gave my next reading (in kWh) they produced a bill and multiplied it by 11 as though it was a Cubic Metres reading.

This is ongoing still.

System

Andy_WSM wrote: »

I'm in a similar position right now - except I am being charged ELEVEN times more than I should for gas!

Reason: I had a smart meter fitted with one company, moved to another company and the smart meter becomes dumb. The new company asked for a reading from the smart meter and I gave the call operator a choice of volume (Cubic Metres) or Energy (kWh) and they asked for the latter. When I gave my next reading (in kWh) they produced a bill and multiplied it by 11 as though it was a Cubic Metres reading.

This is ongoing still.

If your meter is dumb, there is absolutely no way that it can accurately assess how much energy you are using in kWhs as the calorific value of gas changes day by day.

Raxiel

Andy_WSM wrote: »

I'm in a similar position right now - except I am being charged ELEVEN times more than I should for gas!

Reason: I had a smart meter fitted with one company, moved to another company and the smart meter becomes dumb. The new company asked for a reading from the smart meter and I gave the call operator a choice of volume (Cubic Metres) or Energy (kWh) and they asked for the latter. When I gave my next reading (in kWh) they produced a bill and multiplied it by 11 as though it was a Cubic Metres reading.

This is ongoing still.

That is ridiculous, a supplier should never want the kWh figure, because the value produced by the meter is only an estimate. The actual billable value depends on the daily 'quality' of the gas (known as calorific value or CV), which has to be calculated using figures supplied by national grid.

This is no criticism of you, it's not down to the customer to know something like this.

The only reason I know about it is because a) I've been lurking on this board for a year now, and b) I was an Iresa customer, a company that seemed to start out with no greater understanding of CV than the man in the street.

A supplier should know better, and should ensure it's customer facing agents do too.

Edit:

Hengus wrote: »

If your meter is dumb, there is absolutely no way that it can accurately assess how much energy you are using in kWhs as the calorific value of gas changes day by day.

Even if it's smart, I'd be surprised if it was updating its CV daily, or ever, even though that's exactly the sort of thing a 'smart' device should do.

Diz_LFC

Cardew wrote: »

Once established you have been wrongly charged there shouldn't be any problem in getting refunded by your present supplier(Eon) for the time you have been with them. EDF might be a little more difficult.

As it is quite complicated to work out all the different rates over the years companies have tended to offer a rounded up figure.

EDF were good on the phone when I explained. They took the serial numbers and said it should be a couple of weeks to refund.... All being well.

I'll ring them in a week or so if I've not heard.

House_Martin wrote: »

It is usually quite obvious to the customer when a supplier gets it wrong on Imperial/metric mix ups.
It happens, as Cardew states, both ways .One can get a bill almost 3 times more, so say, a £100 quarterly bill is suddenly almost £300 and more rarely the other way when someone starts getting bills nearly a third less.
As a long time meter reader I find these occasionally. They are very upsetting for both parties. I have even had a woman burst into tears when I warned her that BG were misbilling her and her true bills should be 2.8 times more. I can spot the mis-bills when I view the meter and it does not correspond to the number of digits on my hand held computer..

Yes, it has been very stressful.

Unfortunately, in my case it wasn't obvious as this is my first house and wasn't sure what my usage would be to start with. The first year or so were about average on what I had read and been predicted, so thought nothing of it. It was when the usage went up with my wife moving in that brought it to light. Also, it was every reading from the start and not a one off calculation that was the issue, so I had no idea there was an issue.

I'll be checking all my bills in the future have the correct meter reading units (cubic meters) and calculation (no x2.83).

Anyway the engineer is coming out next week to do the checks and I'll then follow up with both EON and EDF to make sure it is all resolved. A lot of eyes on the energy companies at the moment, so hopefully no problems.

Diz_LFC

Andy_WSM wrote: »

I'm in a similar position right now - except I am being charged ELEVEN times more than I should for gas!

Reason: I had a smart meter fitted with one company, moved to another company and the smart meter becomes dumb. The new company asked for a reading from the smart meter and I gave the call operator a choice of volume (Cubic Metres) or Energy (kWh) and they asked for the latter. When I gave my next reading (in kWh) they produced a bill and multiplied it by 11 as though it was a Cubic Metres reading.

This is ongoing still.

Hope you get this sorted.

I won't be moving to a "smart" meter anytime soon. They should be transferable to another supplier. What is the point in getting one if when you move suppliers they become useless dumb meters again. Less incentive to switch. The suppliers should have all gotten together with the meter makers (?) and agreed a standard protocol/system for this, so they could all read them. Never going to happen tho, unless they are forced to.

EachPenny

I agreed with all you said HM, right up until you said this-

House_Martin wrote: »

Smart meters of course would end all these terrible mistakes

The metric/imperial issue will of course be resolved by smart meters, but not because they are 'smart', but because it provides an opportunity to phase out meters reading in CuFt.

Imperial meters could of course be phased out without needing to have a smart meter programme, but even that isn't necessary.

All that is needed is for energy companies to take far more care to prevent 'administrative' errors of this type happening in the first place, and having systems in place to detect obvious errors without having to wait for the consumer to notice.

If the energy companies are incapable of avoiding administrative errors and are disinclined to have automatic detection of errors, then the smart meter programme is only likely to increase the potential for issues as the 'error trap' of consumers occasionally reading their own meters will be removed, and everybody's blind faith in technology will lead to more people assuming they must be using more gas (/electricity) because "the meter must be right".

Smart meters will eventually end imperial/metric mistakes, but in turn will introduce a whole raft of new sources of error, many of which will be difficult for the consumer to identify - and crucially - ultimately to correct.

reeac

Hengus wrote: »

If your meter is dumb, there is absolutely no way that it can accurately assess how much energy you are using in kWhs as the calorific value of gas changes day by day.

And how big an effect is this day to day variation?

Cardew

EachPenny wrote: »

All that is needed is for energy companies to take far more care to prevent 'administrative' errors of this type happening in the first place, and having systems in place to detect obvious errors without having to wait for the consumer to notice.

Are they 'obvious errors' to a computer?

Bear in mind that Eon took over the account from EDF who also were charging incorrectly. - and possibly the charges had been wrong ever since the Metric meter was fitted in ????.

With millions of accounts they are never going to be checked 'manually'; and of course there are mistakes in metric v Imperial billing both ways.