Civil service job offer - pay negotiation?

Manxman_in_exile

NeilCr wrote: »

I used to do a lot of recruitment for a Civil Service type organisation and agree with the comments already made.

Unless we had a shortage in an entry level grade we were very unlikely to negotiate. We might go up a point or two - as has been said it looks like they’ve already done this with you. We did often negotiate heavily for specialist posts.

Manxman is right. In my experience graduates at the clerical level quickly started looking around for other jobs. And, in all honesty, they generally weren’t any better than those with the basic qualifications. Indeed we often found that the 5 O Level folks had gained work experience while the graduates were at university and started with a better sense of what work was all about

I think this is right. I was well "qualified" but floundered at work to start with. Then, after a while, I proved I could do the job quite well.


It's like a driving licence. You're probably not a competent driver until you've done 10,000 miles. And even that is no guarantee.

NeilCr

Andy_L wrote: »

Currently most (all?) CS departments have done away with annual pay increments so it's likely that what you accept is what you will have until you get promotion.
You have nothing to lose by asking for more

I think ask is a far better word here than negotiate. I agree you could ask them if there is any flexibility

I am not sure, OP, what you have to negotiate with at a base level grade. Unless they are very short or it’s for a specific post as opposed to a bulk recruitment.

TELLIT01

Silvertabby wrote: »

You should progress up the incremental scale to the full £21K in due course.

That's the best laugh I've had in years. Progress through the pay scale is virtually non-existent and has been for years. The only reason people move up is that the upper limit doesn't increase but pay increases by 1% per annum. Even good performance has little effect, as bonus payments are made for that and it doesn't increase the base wage.
I'll leave others to work out how many years it will take at 1% to climb from 17 to 21k.:rotfl:
Actually I did a quick calculation, and it's about 15 years.

Silvertabby

“ You should progress up the incremental scale to the full £21K in due course.
Originally posted by Silvertabby ”

That's the best laugh I've had in years. Progress through the pay scale is virtually non-existent and has been for years. The only reason people move up is that the upper limit doesn't increase but pay increases by 1% per annum. Even good performance has little effect, as bonus payments are made for that and it doesn't increase the base wage.
I'll leave others to work out how many years it will take at 1% to climb from 17 to 21k.:rotfl:
Actually I did a quick calculation, and it's about 15 years. Posted by TELLIT01

Then I stand corrected. This was based on Mr S's time in the CS, but he retired 6 years ago so things have obviously changed.

Glad I gave you a laugh, though !

bouicca21

Well it's some time since I was in civil service type job and even then increments had gone and performance related pay was a joke. And even then the jobs that were technically 2 A level entry were being taken by graduates.

Worth asking about flexibility but very unlikely you will get any. I doubt you'd go from AO to fast stream either. What you will get is a shot at working your way up through promotion. I do know of one person who jumped a grade, but they tend to expect you to go up a grade at a time. I don't know if it still happens but in my day there were sometimes jobs that were only recruited internally ( depending on the skill set required), so there opportunities to be had that outsiders didn't get.

Kathy535

Agree with the point made that there is no progression through range of salary on offer any more. Once you enter on £x the only way it improves is through the annual pay rise (currently 1%) or through promotion. So, if you aren't happy with £17k now think about how you'll feel being in it for the next x years.

I've managed to negotiate a pay increase twice now; once to my starting salary on moving on promotions between departments and once moving into a different public sector organisation. For the former I showed that the starting salary of the promotion was higher in my existing department and they matched it. The second time I showed that I was losing out on annual leave entitlement etc and they adjusted my salary to account for that. Basically, if you can give them a compelling reason to do it then you'll have more luck and you don't lose anything by asking.

Alternatives (assuming you don't get an increase) are to turn it down and apply for the fast stream or take it and apply for the fast stream. The fast stream is heavily competed but salaries start around £28k and the experience you'll get in this role will be useful in going through the assessment process.

lincroft1710

NeilCr wrote: »

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Manxman is right. In my experience graduates at the clerical level quickly started looking around for other jobs.

Whilst in the CS I worked with several graduates who were at clerical level. One stayed 25 plus years until his very recent retirement, another is still there after nearly 30 years. From memory the others left for non career related reasons.

The climate in the CS has no doubt changed and it can depend on department, but unless it was possibly a specialised role, you were offered a position at a salary of £x and that was that

ssparks2003

I took a CS role about 3 years ago. The pay offer was just that; take it or leave it. There was no negotiation, I think it is the same across the patch.

Tabbytabitha

zaax wrote: »

Thats just the starting pay, once your in with a master you will able to get on the Fast Stream https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/civil-service-fast-stream

"Might" not "will".

lpd222

I'd definitely ask for more - they can only say no.

Tell them considering your qualifications & experience you were looking more around the £19k.
I've done this on a number of occasions & always got what I've asked for (including civil service & local authority jobs) - in my current role I'm being paid £3.5k over the advertised salary.

I was always taught if you don't ask you don't get - good luck!