Solicitors mistake or mine?

Chrisbjornward

Completed on a mortgage a couple of months ago, when the paper work came through my solicitors failed to pay the full redemption figure because they missed that they should have paid an early repayment charge.

After complaining to the solicitors they have put the blame on me for failing to tell the solicitors I wasn't porting my old mortgage (old and new mortgages with nationwide) and therefore they acted accordingly.

I can see how I could be blamed for this but I had no idea it was up to me to tell my solicitors about the in's & out's of the mortgage - i presumed that they would check everything was followed correctly and there wouldn't be any surprise fees?

The shortfall of the redemption figure was £1500 which they are now billing me for.

Chris

amnblog

Are you saying there was an Early Redemption Charge of from Nationwide £1,500 which was not picked up and not paid?

If so, it's your bill, your cost, or have I missed something?

TrickyDicky101

irrespective of who's fault it was, it is still you that owes the money.

Anyway, I would presume that the solicitor was simply following the redemption figures provided by NW at the time - I would think it is NW who have inadvertently left the ERC off. Have you been offered any kind of repayment schedule (rather than a straightforward you owe £XXX and must pay that today)?

Maybe that's an angle to pursue?

dunstonh

A mistake does not give you legal entitlement to get out of a payment or keep money that is not yours. There is a caveat to that in respect of reasonable expectation. However, that cannot be applied here as your mortgage statements would have shown the ERC. So, its unlikely you could claim you didnt know about the ERC.

However, if you are unable to pay the amount owed in one go, they should agree a repayment plan. Typically the length of time allowed is similar to the length of time the error took to come to pass. So, if it was a coupe of months ago, they should allow you to pay it over two months.

I can see how I could be blamed for this but I had no idea it was up to me to tell my solicitors about the in's & out's of the mortgage - i presumed that they would check everything was followed correctly and there wouldn't be any surprise fees?

It was an error by them but not one that you can get out of paying what is owed. It hasnt made you financially worse off and you have lost nothing because of their error. So, you are not in a loss position because of it.

I "presume" you borrowed more to cover the ERC or put money aside to cover it as you would have known about it as the lender would have told you. That money could have been earning you interest. So, the delay may have made you financially better off.

phillw

Chrisbjornward wrote: »

I can see how I could be blamed for this but I had no idea it was up to me to tell my solicitors about the in's & out's of the mortgage - i presumed that they would check everything was followed correctly and there wouldn't be any surprise fees?

The shortfall of the redemption figure was £1500 which they are now billing me for.

I assume you dealt with Nationwide when organising your mortgage, did they not tell you about the ERC? Or did you apply for a mortgage without saying you already had a mortgage with them that would attract an ERC?

I'm a little shocked that Nationwide would have let you complete the sale without discharging the mortgage.

It's entirely possible that Nationwide screwed up. I'd ask for copies of the correspondence that Nationwide sent to your solicitor, then make a complaint to Nationwide that you weren't made aware of the ERC on your old mortgage when you set up your new mortgage. Then take it to the financial ombudsman.

You are at least partly for blame for not knowing about the ERC, Nationwide and possibly your solicitor are also partly to blame. If Nationwide are charging you interest on the ERC and you can show that the solicitor made a mistake then you might be able to argue they should pay the interest accrued to now. Although I'd argue with Nationwide that they let the house sale complete, so they shouldn't be charging you interest.

In theory you owe the ERC, but if you can show that Nationwide made a mistake then you might get somewhere if you complain.

Chrisbjornward

Thanks for all the quick replies. In answer to a few questions...

The solicitors are saying they acted in accordance with everything nationwide asked them to do, I was under the impression the early repayment charge was to be paid - but afterwards when i saw it had not the solicitors originally said that there were terms in the mortgage that if the mortgage was to be ported within a certain time frame they early repayment charge wouldn't be payable. I pointed all of this out to them in a formal complaint which they totally refuted. They just said 'at no time during the process did you tell us that you were not porting your mortgage'

I had a massive go at nationwide because the first i knew of this problem was when i got charged two mortgage payments in one month - my new & old mortgage!! I ended up complaining to nationwide about another matter (they originally said they would refund the second mortgage payment then changed their minds - i ended up getting £200 of the £300 back from them).

I really dislike solicitors - its appears to me they are worming their way out of any responsibility!

The solicitors are saying i have to repay the outstanding payment at a 'reasonable rate' - however when i pointed out that if this mistake hadn't been made this reasonable amount would amount to no more than £20/month extra on my mortgage. They are having none of it!

Chrisbjornward

Yes they originally said there would be a ERC.

When the solicitors realised they very swiftly moved to pay the correct redemption figure. Amazing that these sort of mistakes can happen and it wasn't until a month later I realised!!

kingstreet

As far as I'm concerned, the applicant provides the solicitor with the lender and account details for the mortgage to be redeemed.

From that point, the solicitor is liaising with the lender to obtain correct redemption numbers for the relevant day.

If the solicitor passes a copy of the redemption statement to the borrower and the statement is missing an expected ERC, the borrower should contact the solicitor to explain.

If the borrower does not have access to the statement and can't see the error, this kind of issue does arise.

Finally, whatever 'he said, she said' we have before, the liability remains with the borrower and the balance should be paid.

phillw

Chrisbjornward wrote: »

The solicitors are saying they acted in accordance with everything nationwide asked them to do

Do you have copies of that? You need it.

Chrisbjornward wrote: »

I was under the impression the early repayment charge was to be paid - but afterwards when i saw it had not the solicitors originally said that there were terms in the mortgage that if the mortgage was to be ported within a certain time frame they early repayment charge wouldn't be payable.

Well it seems like they made the mistake of assuming it was to be ported and you made the mistake of not telling them you weren't porting it, when you questioned them why it had not been paid. It's difficult to argue you're financially worse off.

Chrisbjornward wrote: »

I pointed all of this out to them in a formal complaint which they totally refuted. They just said 'at no time during the process did you tell us that you were not porting your mortgage'

They have a point, don't you think?

Chrisbjornward wrote: »

I had a massive go at nationwide because the first i knew of this problem was when i got charged two mortgage payments in one month - my new & old mortgage!! I ended up complaining to nationwide about another matter (they originally said they would refund the second mortgage payment then changed their minds - i ended up getting £200 of the £300 back from them).

It seems Nationwide have made mistakes too, I assume that they consented to the charge being lifted on your old property but didn't close down your mortgage for some reason. I'd certainly be complaining about that and taking it to the financial ombudsman, while doing that you should ask them to allow you to put the ERC on your new mortgage. Nationwide would hopefully want to avoid the ombudsman, but if not then they might side with you and set a low repayment amount.

Chrisbjornward wrote: »

I really dislike solicitors - its appears to me they are worming their way out of any responsibility!

Unfortunately they act on your instructions, so if you don't instruct and Nationwide make a mistake then trying to pin any responsibility on them is going to be very difficult.

Chrisbjornward wrote: »

The solicitors are saying i have to repay the outstanding payment at a 'reasonable rate' - however when i pointed out that if this mistake hadn't been made this reasonable amount would amount to no more than £20/month extra on my mortgage. They are having none of it!

Are you saying the solicitors have paid the ERC and are chasing you for it? Did you ask them to pay it? If not then how quickly they think it should be paid is irrelevant & you're wasting your time talking to them about it.

dunstonh

The solicitors are saying i have to repay the outstanding payment at a 'reasonable rate' - however when i pointed out that if this mistake hadn't been made this reasonable amount would amount to no more than £20/month extra on my mortgage. They are having none of it!

Reasonable works both ways. It should be reasonable to both. Not reasonable to one whilst taking the P with the other.

If it went to court (which is a possibility if you dig your heels in) then the judge would rule against you (as it is a debt you owe and knew it existed and no error removes that). The judge would agree a reasonable period which is influenced by the time taken for the error to be noticed. I would expect 12 months would be allowed. Possibly 24 months at most.

You would also be questioned on what have you spent the money on in the two months as your bank account should be higher by the amount of the ERC.

I had a massive go at nationwide because the first i knew of this problem was when i got charged two mortgage payments in one month - my new & old mortgage!!

That can be quite normal. Your mortgage adviser should have warned you of this. You normally get the overpayment refunded about 10 days later.

Thrugelmir

Chrisbjornward wrote: »

The shortfall of the redemption figure was £1500 which they are now billing me for.

If you were aware of this, which it sounds you were. Then complaining loudly simply sounds as if you are trying it on. In the hope that another party will generously settle. What was most likely a genuine mistake. For which some unfortunately employee has either lost their job or been placed on a PIP.