Chimnet breast removal - old terraced house

Tex2010

Hi everyone,

We live in an old 1912 mid terraced house and we are having extensive building works done downstairs..so existing kitchen knocked down and rebuilt into a bigger extension and the supporting back wall knocked through, steels inserted and opened up into a large kitchen diner. We have building controls approval and part wall agreement signed with next door etc etc...

Only thing is ...in the dining room is a large chimney breast...we never really thought about it before but now the extension is taking shape we are thinking about knocking this out. The breast above (in the bathroom) and the breast in the loft and the stack was all removed 10 years ago when we had the loft conversion done and building controls signed it off. So the only breast left is this one in the dining room (with no chimney breast above it as they were taken out earlier)...the builder seems to think it will be pretty easy as it's not supporting anything..as the whole stack above was removed..but with these older houses i worry slightly..he says it can be taken down gingerly and made good as part of the existing work they are doing...and seems to think we don't need a structural engineer in. Thoughts? Am also wondering if removing the breast will compromise sound proofing with next door

Thanks

magn8p

I had a similar requirement about 3 months ago and as part of this exploration, I wrote several questions in forums, including this one and the outcome is that you can't simply remove just the downstairs chimney breast. And that it has to start from the stack in the roof/loft (if not supported it needs to carefully supported with steel beams) and only then can proceed with living space removal.

In your case, since you already have the stack removed, you are definitely okay to carefully remove the chimney breast in your dining area.....similar to the process followed in this video - https://youtu.be/Fj0fEaRcC1I. As can be seen, the void formed after removing the breast is carefully filled with supported fabric that goes with the rest of the ceiling/flooring. As far as sound proofing is concerned, I think it wouldn't be affected as you will still have a solid wall like the rest of the room/house separating your house from the neighbours so I think you are okay.

On the other hand, if you decide not to remove it, you can definitely improve its looks and functionality. We have an unused chimney breast in our living room and I pondered up on removing it completely but then decided to insert a hole in the wall electric fire like http://amzn.to/2in5rJn and mount a TV on top of it. You can also get a similar gas model like http://amzn.to/2imWzn8 but of course it needs a lot of care.

All the best.

Tex2010 wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We live in an old 1912 mid terraced house and we are having extensive building works done downstairs..so existing kitchen knocked down and rebuilt into a bigger extension and the supporting back wall knocked through, steels inserted and opened up into a large kitchen diner. We have building controls approval and part wall agreement signed with next door etc etc...

Only thing is ...in the dining room is a large chimney breast...we never really thought about it before but now the extension is taking shape we are thinking about knocking this out. The breast above (in the bathroom) and the breast in the loft and the stack was all removed 10 years ago when we had the loft conversion done and building controls signed it off. So the only breast left is this one in the dining room (with no chimney breast above it as they were taken out earlier)...the builder seems to think it will be pretty easy as it's not supporting anything..as the whole stack above was removed..but with these older houses i worry slightly..he says it can be taken down gingerly and made good as part of the existing work they are doing...and seems to think we don't need a structural engineer in. Thoughts? Am also wondering if removing the breast will compromise sound proofing with next door

Thanks

Kingsd316

Don't forget you need a party wall agreement with next door also

J_B

Kingsd316 wrote: »

Don't forget you need a party wall agreement with next door also

Tex2010 wrote: »

. We have building controls approval and part wall agreement signed with next door etc etc...

I presume 'part' is a typo and you mean party.

If you have building control approval, presumably (?) the building inspector will advise and perhaps govern what you do?

EachPenny

Tex2010 wrote: »

So the only breast left is this one in the dining room (with no chimney breast above it as they were taken out earlier)...the builder seems to think it will be pretty easy as it's not supporting anything..as the whole stack above was removed..but with these older houses i worry slightly..he says it can be taken down gingerly and made good as part of the existing work they are doing...and seems to think we don't need a structural engineer in. Thoughts?

My thoughts are the builder is probably a danger to himself, you, and your neighbours.

The ground floor part of a chimney supports the chimney above, and clearly in your case that is no longer necessary.

However, the chimney may also provide lateral stability to the party wall. If you are removing other walls in the house which also provide lateral stability then it is almost certainly a case where a structural engineer is needed. Presumably the work already going on has had a structural engineering assessment, and that assessment may have assumed the chimney breast was remaining in situ.

A good builder will be able to make a reasonable assessment of whether a chimney breast is likely to be providing a structural function, but as you will probably need a modified party wall agreement and have building control visiting anyway then the first thing I'd do is to ask building control for advice on the best way to proceed.

But saying something can be "taken down gingerly" does not inspire confidence. If they think they need to do it "gingerly" then it suggests they have no idea whether the chimney has a structural function or not. You need to know for sure that it doesn't before it is removed.

magn8p wrote: »

In your case, since you already have the stack removed, you are definitely okay to carefully remove the chimney breast in your dining area.....

That kind of advice gets innocent people killed

Tex2010

Thanks for this

When i said gingerly it was maybe taken out of context a bit..as when i first mentioned it getting removed i was worried about noise and disturbance to the neighbours..they are fine about it. The builder works on these properties all the time..have known him for 10 years so i trust him..what he was more or less saying is we don't come in and bash it about with a sledge hammer. Which is what i was worried about...it gets taken out brick my brick.

Good point about other walls being taken down though..the wall being taken down is on the wall next to the wall with the chimney breast...however, ithe wall has not been taken down all the way to the party wall...so the steel is not being inserted into the party wall but sitting on a plinth that is being built and a padstone on top of that. Hard to explain lol...anyway thank's for the info..will have another chat with him

knightstyle

I have had several chimney breasts removed over the years. As it is a terrace is there a corresponding one next door? If so you can probably remove yours safely with the necessary brackets to hold up the chimney.
Is no then complete removal of the chimney is probably required.
Whatever you decide you MUST get a decent surveyor to check the building and get the work inspected when complete BEFORE you pay the final payment to the builder.
You may also have to tell your insurer.