Tired of this cycle!

theruffles

I'm not quite sure where to start but I'm posting because I'd like some advice on the situation my husband and I have found ourselves in. I can't talk to my family about our debt issues - they immediately panic and think we're not able to cope (which I suppose we are just about coping but I don't want to worry them).

We have almost £12,500 in debt, which feels very scary to admit. It is on credit cards (all 0% bar one). I make sure at least the minimum payments are made each month, and I've never missed a payment or bill, but I feel like I'm drowning in the weight of this debt. I wake up in the night and struggle to think of anything else but what we owe.

We also seem to run out of money before the end of month, on a regular basis. I know this is because we are living beyond our means but we don't have extravagant tastes. I think it comes down to a mindset that we both need to address - we need to be sensible with our money and plan for things instead of hoping the credit card will fund it if we're unable to. My husband refuses to talk about our money situation, he'd rather not hear about my worries and if he ever needs to know about the bank account or if we have money available he will ask me and not bother to check the account himself. I find that the hardest, because it feels like I'm waging a one person battle.

We turned to credit cards a few years ago to get by when my husband was unexpectantly signed off work with mental health issues. He was out of work for almost two years and in that time he got some sickness benefit but it was spent on keeping his mood level on days when everything felt very dark for him. I couldn't talk to him about making ends meet then as it made his mental health worse. I don't know that he even considered how we were paying our bills; it was a struggle just getting through each day for him. We had to make do on my wage, which didn't stretch far enough to cover all of our bills - hence the credit cards.

He's now back in work and much happier, but his salary is irregular (seasonal work). I can see though that the dependence on credit cards that started while he was off work has gotten worse, to the point where we now have the figure above to contend with.

I have paid off our overdraft, which we used to never be out of and have locked the credit cards away to stop the urge to use them while I'm out. I've done a good trade in selling on eBay and have an extra part-time job alongside my full-time role but I'm still struggling. I'm also fed up of sleepless nights and panicking every morning when I go to look at our bank balance.

I'm sorry for the length of this post, but I'd welcome any comments and advice.

tori.k

Sorry to hear of the stress your under, you often find with couples one takes the financial rein's which can work well as long as the other person is on the same page where the budget is concerned, my own husband is like this has no real interest in our accounts but will stick to our budget and we decuss any purchases needed outside of this. ( Which is my nice way of saying he doesn't spend unless like a kid he's asked first but that's his choice) it's was frustrating when we were in debt but really it did make it easier to keep track.

Put together a SOA ( statements of affairs) and those in the know may be able to find savings that can free up a bit more to help get your budget under control
And consider starting a debt free diary would give you a place not only to find some ongoing support with your journey but a record of how far forward you come and there will be times you will need that
Good luck

National_Debtline

Hi theruffles


Thanks for sharing your situation and like Tori I am sorry to hear that it has been causing you sleepless nights. You may find, though, that seeking advice on a forum like this may end up more productive than discussing it with family, as here you can be sure that no one is emotionally invested and will try to offer objective guidance. Likewise, the free debt advice charities can offer support in the strictest confidence - you don't need to be behind on payments already to be "eligible" for their help.


I can only agree with the above recommendation that you put together an SOA like this one:


http://www.stoozing.com/calculator/soa.php


and then share the results here - it should be easy enough to paste in so that it is legible.


Best wishes


Dennis
@natdebtline

theruffles

Thank you for your helpful responses - I'll look at putting an SOA together

enthusiasticsaver

I think you will find a lot of people in your situation where through ill health or redundancy people turn to credit cards when that often compounds the problem especially if they continue to be used. Difficult I know when income is suddenly reduced and ideally people would have emergency savings to cover that but as evidenced on this forum this is unusual. £12500 is nowhere near the highest we have seen so this is fixable. There is always a solution to debt problems.

It makes it worse for you if your husband takes no interest. In the future when he turns to you to ask about money just say there is none. You have done the right thing in paying off the overdraft and locking the cards away. So lots of positives.

theruffles

Monthly Budget SummaryAmount(£)
Total monthly income 2,000
Monthly expenses (incl. HP & secured loans) 1,737.74
Available for debt repayments 262.26
UNsecured debt repayments 279
Amount short for making debt repayments -16.74
Personal Balance Sheet SummaryAmount(£)
Total Assets (things you own) 5,000
Total Secured & HP Debt -10,000
Total Unsecured Debt -12,804.58
Net Assets -17,804.58

Household Information

Number of adults in household 2
Number of children in household
Number of cars owned 2

Income, Expense, Debt & Asset Details

IncomeAmount(£)
Monthly income after tax 1400
Partners monthly income 600
(this is the minimum due to seasonal work)
Benefits 0
Other income 0
Total monthly income 2000

ExpensesAmount(£)
Mortgage 0
Secured/HP loan payments150
(this is my car, which will be paid off in Feb)
Rent 495
Management charge (leasehold property) 0
Council tax 98
Electricity 40
Gas 40
(gas and electricity is an average. We pay quarterly and a joint bill)
Oil 0
Water Rates 35
Telephone (land line) 0
Mobile phone 45
(2 x phones. Mine is £10 PAYG, husband's is a contract)
TV Licence 12.25
Satellite/Cable TV 26
(NOW TV subscriptions and Netflix)
Internet services 6.99
Groceries etc. 250
Clothing 40
Petrol/diesel 180
(my husband has a lengthy drive to work)
Road tax 0
(paid some months ago upfront)
Car Insurance 28
(for husband's car, my insurance was paid upfront)
Car maintenance (including MOT) 0
Car Parking 0
Other travel 55
(monthly bus pass)
Childcare/nursery 0
Other child related expenses 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentists, opticians etc.) 0
Pet Insurance/Vet bills 5.5
Buildings Insurance 0
Contents Insurance 6
Life Assurance 0
Other Insurance 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc.) 10
Haircuts 40
Entertainment 175
(an estimate but I know this is higher than necessary)
Holiday 0
Emergency Fund 0
Total monthly expenses 1737.74

Secured & HP Debt
Description Debt(£) Monthly(£) APR(%)
Mortgage 0 (0) 0
Hire Purchase (HP)
Debt 10000 (150) 0
Secured & HP Debt totals 10000 - - (my car - payments will finish in Feb 2018)

Unsecured Debt
Description Debt(£) Monthly(£) APR(%)
Natwest CC 4400 150 0%
Virgin CC 3787.5 55 0%
M&S CC 3767 99 0%
MNBA CC 850 25 0%
Unsecured Debt totals12804.58279 -

Asset DescriptionValue (£)
Cash0
House Value (Gross)0
Shares and bonds0
Car(s) 5000 (husband's car)
Other assets (e.g. endowments, jewellery etc) 0
Total Assets5000

jubilee14

theruffles wrote: »

Monthly Budget SummaryAmount(£)
Total monthly income 2,000
Monthly expenses (incl. HP & secured loans) 1,737.74
Available for debt repayments 262.26
UNsecured debt repayments 279
Amount short for making debt repayments -16.74
Personal Balance Sheet SummaryAmount(£)
Total Assets (things you own) 5,000
Total Secured & HP Debt -10,000
Total Unsecured Debt -12,804.58
Net Assets -17,804.58

Household Information

Number of adults in household 2
Number of children in household
Number of cars owned 2

Income, Expense, Debt & Asset Details

IncomeAmount(£)
Monthly income after tax 1400
Partners monthly income 600
(this is the minimum due to seasonal work)
Benefits 0
Other income 0
Total monthly income 2000

ExpensesAmount(£)
Mortgage 0
Secured/HP loan payments150
(this is my car, which will be paid off in Feb)
Rent 495
Management charge (leasehold property) 0
Council tax 98
Electricity 40
Gas 40
(gas and electricity is an average. We pay quarterly and a joint bill)
Oil 0
Water Rates 35
Telephone (land line) 0
Mobile phone 45
(2 x phones. Mine is £10 PAYG, husband's is a contract)
TV Licence 12.25
Satellite/Cable TV 26
(NOW TV subscriptions and Netflix)
Internet services 6.99
Groceries etc. 250
Clothing 40
Petrol/diesel 180
(my husband has a lengthy drive to work)
Road tax 0
(paid some months ago upfront)
Car Insurance 28
(for husband's car, my insurance was paid upfront)
Car maintenance (including MOT) 0
Car Parking 0
Other travel 55
(monthly bus pass)
Childcare/nursery 0
Other child related expenses 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentists, opticians etc.) 0
Pet Insurance/Vet bills 5.5
Buildings Insurance 0
Contents Insurance 6
Life Assurance 0
Other Insurance 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc.) 10
Haircuts 40
Entertainment 175
(an estimate but I know this is higher than necessary)
Holiday 0
Emergency Fund 0
Total monthly expenses 1737.74

Secured & HP Debt
Description Debt(£) Monthly(£) APR(%)
Mortgage 0 (0) 0
Hire Purchase (HP)
Debt 10000 (150) 0
Secured & HP Debt totals 10000 - - (my car - payments will finish in Feb 2018)

Unsecured Debt
Description Debt(£) Monthly(£) APR(%)
Natwest CC 4400 150 0%
Virgin CC 3787.5 55 0%
M&S CC 3767 99 0%
MNBA CC 850 25 0%
Unsecured Debt totals12804.58279 -

Asset DescriptionValue (£)
Cash0
House Value (Gross)0
Shares and bonds0
Car(s) 5000 (husband's car)
Other assets (e.g. endowments, jewellery etc) 0
Total Assets5000

Hi The Ruffles, Looking at things two areas that jump out are your grocery bill could maybe cut a bit if only for two people. As you said 175 on entertainment is something that could be cut a bit. Also 40 for hairdressers a month seems high side. Finally your combined salary isnt very high have you considered applying for working tax credits?

Its not as bad as you think and within a couple of months you will be £150 better off to help with bills. Good luck.

foxgloves

Hello The Ruffles,
Sorry you are feeling so worried about your debt situation. You explanation of how it has happened, with your partner's mental health problems, is understandable. I also think you've identified the current issues well. The spending on credit cards which began then, has carried on, & you know the debt will simply increase if it continues. I had my light bulb moment about paying off our debts before my husband, so I have experienced the situation of desperately wanting to start tackling it, but finding partner not on the same page!. My husband is now a reformed character with money, as am I. Neither of us led extravagant lifestyles, either...we didn't smoke, have holidays abroad, buy designed clothes or eat out at expensive restaurants. As you have found out, you don't need to do any of those lifestyle things to find yourself deep in the debty doo-dah, all you actually have to do is exactly what I did for decades: Fail to budget.....& spend more than I earned. Just a £50 overspend a week is a £2,600 debt by the end of one year. A weekly £50 overspend is REALLY easy to do......a takeaway, some carry-out beers, a lipstick or a DVD, & that's the £50 gone! If you overspend by £100 a week.......so all of the above items plus you might buy yourself a new top......that's £5200 debt accumulated in a year.....& so it goes on.
I had a mantra which really helped me when we were learning to budget & paying off our debts: "If I have to put it on a credit card, take out a loan or extend my overdraft to buy it, that's not my money, that's somebody else's money, so I obviously can't afford it" . Even thought I now budget hard every month, I still say this to myself when I'm tempted to just bung an impulse buy on my credit card.
Learning to budget is EVERYTHING. It doesn't matter how you organise this. I simply use an A4 notebook which I call 'The Money Book'. I work out my monthly budget in that book & update it regularly, I also have a basic Excel spreadsheet with all our monthly outgoings on it. I use the envelope system for little savings pots for car maintenance, clothes, entertainment, presents, household maintenance & holidays and pay a little into our general emergency fund every month.
I do all the finance/budgeting, but my partner is still very much on board, as like me, he's discovered he's much happier if he isn't overspending & running up credit card debt like our bad old days. I set the budget on Pay-day each month, but we always talk about it & make decisions together. One thing that has really helped is that each month, we both have £60 cash for our 'Personal Spends'. If we are on holiday, or it's a special occasion (such as a Festival, where I'd rather we controlled what is spent), I will often budget to increase this to £100, but the important thing is that it's our money to spend on whatever we want. If mr f wants to go & blow the lot on some obscure muso box-set, that's fine, but when it's gone, it's gone, there isn't any more until the following month. We both used to be shocking fritters of money & it's amazing how this system makes us prioritise what we actually do really want to buy. Even if I can afford it, if I don't TOTALLY LOVE IT & it looks like it will last me a long time, then it stays in the shop.
So, I think getting a budget in place is really key for you. The money you have coming in every month is your money. There isn't any more, because as Ii finally managed to explain to my husband when we first embarked on this journey.....ACCESS to credit, is not the same as having money. He used to say he'd got £900 towards something or other, & it was a while before I discovered he was referring to the amount of credit left on one of his cards. Not the same thing at all!!
Good luck with it all. There is no bag of tat I could come home with now that would make me as happy as getting on top of our finances has done.
Best Wishes,
F
P.S Our household income is around the same as yours, so I don't have huge spare amounts of money to play with on budgeting day - it's just a case of the income we have really having to work for us x

EssexHebridean

OK I'll do comments in blue as you've already got notes there in red...

theruffles wrote: »

Monthly Budget SummaryAmount(£)
Total monthly income 2,000
Monthly expenses (incl. HP & secured loans) 1,737.74
Available for debt repayments 262.26
UNsecured debt repayments 279
Amount short for making debt repayments -16.74
Personal Balance Sheet SummaryAmount(£)
Total Assets (things you own) 5,000
Total Secured & HP Debt -10,000
Total Unsecured Debt -12,804.58
Net Assets -17,804.58

Household Information

Number of adults in household 2
Number of children in household
Number of cars owned 2

Income, Expense, Debt & Asset Details

IncomeAmount(£)
Monthly income after tax 1400
Partners monthly income 600
(this is the minimum due to seasonal work)
Benefits 0
Other income 0
Total monthly income 2000

ExpensesAmount(£)
Mortgage 0
Secured/HP loan payments150
(this is my car, which will be paid off in Feb)
Rent 495
Management charge (leasehold property) 0
Council tax 98 Is this split over 12 months? If not then look into doing that as it can help with budetting.
Electricity 40 First thing is to check you're on the best tariff for you - use the MSE energy club to set up your details and that will give you all the options. In the meantime concentrate on minimising use - so turn off things not actually being used, turn the thermostat down a degree or two etc.
Gas 40
(gas and electricity is an average. We pay quarterly and a joint bill) Are you actually setting the monthly amount aside to make sure it's ready when the bill comes in? Personally I'd suggest switching this to monthly DD.
Oil 0
Water Rates 35
Telephone (land line) 0
Mobile phone 45
(2 x phones. Mine is £10 PAYG, husband's is a contract) When does OH's contract finish? £35 a month is high - he'll be able to get a far better deal on SIM only.
TV Licence 12.25
Satellite/Cable TV 26
(NOW TV subscriptions and Netflix)
Internet services 6.99
Groceries etc. 250 This is high for two people - look at what you get and where you get it. Meal plan and shop to a list to avoid food waste and have a thorough audit of fridge/freezer on a weekly basis to incorporate the things you already have into your plan. You can knock £100 off this.
Clothing 40
Petrol/diesel 180
(my husband has a lengthy drive to work)
Road tax 0
(paid some months ago upfront) Yes, but you do realise that this is an annual thing,m right? Start putting money aside monthly for car costs -
don't just pay them and forget about them.
Car Insurance 28
(for husband's car, my insurance was paid upfront) So the monthly figure that yours equates to needs to be added in here so you have the money ready when it falls due. To be honest I'd say switch yours to monthly until your debt situation is a bit more sorted out.
Car maintenance (including MOT) 0 On that level of fuel spend monthly there is no way your cars cost you nothing each month! As a guideline (similar sort of mileage from the looks of things) we budget £165 a month that covers pretty much everything aside from diesel for our two cars
Car Parking 0
Other travel 55
(monthly bus pass) why are you paying for this when you're running two cars? Is the second car actually needed, or is it just a "want"?
Childcare/nursery 0
Other child related expenses 0
Medical (prescriptions, dentists, opticians etc.) 0
Pet Insurance/Vet bills 5.5
Buildings Insurance 0
Contents Insurance 6
Life Assurance 0
Other Insurance 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc.) 10
Haircuts 40 How much? Time to shop around for a cheaper salon, I think!
Entertainment 175
(an estimate but I know this is higher than necessary) And if it's an estimate that's probably under what you really spend, too...
Holiday 0
Emergency Fund 0 Use £50 of the savings in that food budget to start feeding this, instead...
Total monthly expenses 1737.74

Secured & HP Debt
Description Debt(£) Monthly(£) APR(%)
Mortgage 0 (0) 0
Hire Purchase (HP)
Debt 10000 (150) 0
Secured & HP Debt totals 10000 - - (my car - payments will finish in Feb 2018)

Unsecured Debt
Description Debt(£) Monthly(£) APR(%)
Natwest CC 4400 150 0%
Virgin CC 3787.5 55 0%
M&S CC 3767 99 0%
MNBA CC 850 25 0%
Unsecured Debt totals12804.58279 -

Asset DescriptionValue (£)
Cash0
House Value (Gross)0
Shares and bonds0
Car(s) 5000 (husband's car)
Other assets (e.g. endowments, jewellery etc) 0
Total Assets5000

OK - there is definitely room to save. If I was to be brutal I'd ask whether you need netflix AND Now TV. I'd certainly say that you need to revisit that entertainment budget while things are tight, but you already know that, don't you.

Start budgeting for annual spends monthly - car tax etc.
have a good hard think about whether you "need" two cars" or whether the bus pass can go in favour of a driving commute. One or the other has to give I'd suggest.
Food budget can definitely be cut.
Emergency fund - look at building that to £500 first - that means you['re covered for small appliances going wrong and that sort of thing.

Are all your CC's really at 0% for purchases? If so then good work but you need to stop using them immediately and then order them so you pay extra off the first one to have it's 0% expire. Also but ONLY once you've stopped using them set the monthly DD for the cards to a round figure slightly above the current minimum - this addresses the issue of the minimum payment dropping over time and so has more effect on the outstanding balance.

theruffles

jubilee14 wrote: »

Hi The Ruffles, Looking at things two areas that jump out are your grocery bill could maybe cut a bit if only for two people. As you said 175 on entertainment is something that could be cut a bit. Also 40 for hairdressers a month seems high side. Finally your combined salary isnt very high have you considered applying for working tax credits?

Its not as bad as you think and within a couple of months you will be £150 better off to help with bills. Good luck.

Thank you. I agree about our grocery bill. I try to shop once a fortnight and stick to a list/meal plan. I also try to take into account what we have at home, but the issue can be my husband. I think sometimes we're just on different pages. He is off work more because of seasonal work and he will pop out to buy additional things for our evening meals if he fancies something different. He doesn't always show a lot of interest in the meal plan.

£40 for the hairdressers is high, I know. My hair cuts are usually under £5, and the majority is my husband who will go once a month to a more expensive place. He prefers to use a place when he knows he can trust it and stick to them...

I've not looked into tax credits. My husband had them a few years ago in a previous job and got into a muddle where they were overpaid. We paid them back what was owed but he doesn't want to mess with them again in case the same happens.

theruffles

EssexHebridean wrote: »

OK I'll do comments in blue as you've already got notes there in red...



OK - there is definitely room to save. If I was to be brutal I'd ask whether you need netflix AND Now TV. I'd certainly say that you need to revisit that entertainment budget while things are tight, but you already know that, don't you.

Start budgeting for annual spends monthly - car tax etc.
have a good hard think about whether you "need" two cars" or whether the bus pass can go in favour of a driving commute. One or the other has to give I'd suggest.
Food budget can definitely be cut.
Emergency fund - look at building that to £500 first - that means you['re covered for small appliances going wrong and that sort of thing.

Are all your CC's really at 0% for purchases? If so then good work but you need to stop using them immediately and then order them so you pay extra off the first one to have it's 0% expire. Also but ONLY once you've stopped using them set the monthly DD for the cards to a round figure slightly above the current minimum - this addresses the issue of the minimum payment dropping over time and so has more effect on the outstanding balance.

Thank you and I appreciate the honesty. We don't need Netflix and NOW TV. I think the latter could go.

Grocery bill - I know we can try harder here to stick to meal plans and use what is already in the cupboards.

Budgeting for upcoming expenses each month is something I need to do. It'd take a lot of stress out of my day if the expenses had already been put aside and were ready and waiting to go. I will look at putting a budget in place.

If I'm being honest, we don't need two cars. I rarely use mine in the week now I can commute to work on the bus. It is more of a 'want'. I think I have held onto it because I've worked to pay it off over the last 5 years and, in a situation where it has often felt like my husband's needs have had to come first, it was mine. We could manage perfectly fine with one car.

The credit cards are all at 0% (thankfully!). I have stopped using them (literally locked away).