UKCPS Ltd: PCN - Leeds

Borodan

Hello

First of all, I have read the 'Newbie sticky' but this is a bit of a peculiar one so I thought I'd try and find out if anyone else has been in this situation before.

I have been given a PCN from UKCPS Ltd (IPC). The car park is relatively new and hasn't had any parking restrictions for a couple of months, no signs, no warnings, no time limits. I parked in there yesterday, as per usual, however the following day I return to my car and notice new signage and a parking ticket. :rotfl:

I asked the staff at PoundLand who confirmed that the signage had been put up AFTER I had parked my car. Surely I can't be expected to pay this as there was no restrictions at the time of parking. The car park apparently has CCTV so that could prove when I entered and when the work was carried out.

I feel like I should appeal but I know that's not recommended in most scenarios, so does anyone else have any experience of this type of situation?

Any advice would be appreciated!
Cheers

Redx

I doubt that any CCTV is going to help you

as this was new signage , read the IPC CoP and see what it says about new signage and any "bedding in" period

clearly if there were no signs when the driver parked, no contract was entered into

doesnt mean its going to be easy to resolve though

I would complain to the MA of the site , or the retail shop CEO and insist on a cancellation

wait for an NTK to arrive in the post before appealing as KEEPER using the black text template

KeithP

Borodan wrote: »

I feel like I should appeal but I know that's not recommended in most scenarios...

You read that in the 'Newbie sticky' did you?

Borodan

KeithP wrote: »

You read that in the 'Newbie sticky' did you?

I read that you should wait a month for the NTK before doing anything, so yes.

Coupon-mad

Complain NOW (not appeal) to UKCPS, and then to your MP and Trading Standrds, and the IPC.

In my view the IPC do not get enough complaints coming their way about their awful AOS members, because people can't just email them. One would be forgiven for thinking Hurley and Davies make it deliberately difficult... You have to 'register' to complain about a PPC and you have to first of all complain to the PPC themselves.

So, if I were you I would not use the template. I would actually complain as driver! A RARE ONE!

I would complain to UKCPS that there were no signs up when you parked, and it is clear that this is predatory and unprofessional ticketing, to rock up and put signs up and then look round at the cars already trapped, and ticket them.

Say you want to gather information from UKCPS, to put a complaint to Trading Standards, to your MP and to the IPC (and NOT an appeal to the IAS). A formal complaint that UKPCS have breached the IPC Code of Practice in several ways, as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Say you already have confirmation from Poundland that the signs were put up on xx/xx/17 and you will be getting that in writing and will be presenting it with your complaint to the IPC. As such, the purpose of your letter is to complain about UKCPS ticketing already-parked cars on the very day they put signs up, and you are giving them the opportunity to either:

- cancel this PCN because UKCPS have not acted fairly or professionally

or

- provide their version of events, the record of the signage placement and a statement from the ticketer/the employee who put the signs up, so that it can be put before your MP, Trading Standards and the IPC.

Finish by saying that this letter is not an appeal but is the complaint you are required to make before reporting dodgy practices to the IPC. And that you reserve the right to also report the conduct to other agencies including but not limited to the DVLA and Information Commissioner, should UKCPS take the unsupported step to obtain the registered keeper's data next month, which in this case, given these facts about the location and the fact they have this letter from you, the driver, would be an enquiry without 'reasonable cause'.

Oh, and you could also send a copy to the DVLA of this first complaint and ask that they *flag* your keeper records to the effect that UKCPS have no reasonable cause to obtain your data should they seek it, not only due to the stated facts in the complaint but also because the complaint gives them the driver's name and address, anyway. Therefore, you insist that the DVLA in this instance refuses to provide the keeper data, and you would like a reply to this letter that doesn't spout any template guff about reasonable cause, and actually deals properly with this specific matter.

Borodan

@Coupon-mad

Thank you for your in-depth response, I will be taking your advice.

One query, how can I prove that I was parked there before the signage was put up? Or is it up to them to prove that I wasn't?

Cheers

Coupon-mad

With the letter from Poundland, plus your own honest statement that the car was there before. The burden shifts to UKCPS to prove otherwise, and even if they did prove the signs were up just before you parked, they STILL fall foul of the IPC CoP:

page 24

Changes in Operator’s Terms and Conditions

''Where there is any change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a person visiting the site and which materially affects the motorist you should place additional (temporary) signage at the entrance making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges. This signage should be in addition to the signage ordinarily required and left in place for an appropriate period.''

Borodan

Thanks Coupon-mad, I took your advice and sent them a complaint on your recommendation and today I received the following (I tried to upload a photo but as a new user I am not allowed..):

"Thank you for your appeal regarding the above parking notice charge.

After review of your parking charge detailed above we have decided to cancel. This is a one time gesture of goodwill and will not be repeated on future occasions. Please be assured this matter is now closed on our systems.

UKCPS can only address the factual issues of where and how you were parked. We will not enter into discussions about the legality of parking on private land or of the landowners right to impose parking conditions on their property. We will only answer points relevant to the specific parking event all other points you may have made are irrelevant to the appeal."

Happy days that it has been cancelled but they clearly didn't read my complaint properly as they refer to it as an appeal. Ah well, justice is served.

Thanks again!

Coupon-mad

Haha, that's very rare, frame it!

I remember this complaint now, ticketing where there were no signs up: :eek::eek:

So, if I were you I would not use the template. I would actually complain as driver! A RARE ONE!

I would complain to UKCPS that there were no signs up when you parked, and it is clear that this is predatory and unprofessional ticketing, to rock up and put signs up and then look round at the cars already trapped, and ticket them.

Say you want to gather information from UKCPS, to put a complaint to Trading Standards, to your MP and to the IPC (and NOT an appeal to the IAS). A formal complaint that UKPCS have breached the IPC Code of Practice in several ways, as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Say you already have confirmation from Poundland that the signs were put up on xx/xx/17 and you will be getting that in writing and will be presenting it with your complaint to the IPC. As such, the purpose of your letter is to complain about UKCPS ticketing already-parked cars on the very day they put signs up, and you are giving them the opportunity to either:

- cancel this PCN because UKCPS have not acted fairly or professionally

or

- provide their version of events, the record of the signage placement and a statement from the ticketer/the employee who put the signs up, so that it can be put before your MP, Trading Standards and the IPC.

Finish by saying that this letter is not an appeal but is the complaint you are required to make before reporting dodgy practices to the IPC. And that you reserve the right to also report the conduct to other agencies including but not limited to the DVLA and Information Commissioner, should UKCPS take the unsupported step to obtain the registered keeper's data next month, which in this case, given these facts about the location and the fact they have this letter from you, the driver, would be an enquiry without 'reasonable cause'.

Oh, and you could also send a copy to the DVLA of this first complaint and ask that they *flag* your keeper records to the effect that UKCPS have no reasonable cause to obtain your data should they seek it, not only due to the stated facts in the complaint but also because the complaint gives them the driver's name and address, anyway. Therefore, you insist that the DVLA in this instance refuses to provide the keeper data, and you would like a reply to this letter that doesn't spout any template guff about reasonable cause, and actually deals properly with this specific matter.

I would now follow the complaint up with Mr Dunford and the IPC and ask what is being done about UKCPS who ticketed cars here which were parked before the signs went up. I would also send a summary to your MP and ask him/her to support the new Bill reining in the worst practices (like this).

This is one of the worst examples and just because they cancelled doesn't let them off the hook. Please nail them!

One wonders how many other people got similar unwarranted charges, and what steps to sanction UKCPS the IPC are taking, with the DVLA breathing down their neck...

...which will only happen if you keep pushing...

Umkomaas

Good result OP. UKCPS don’t give much for nothing.

Just as an aside CM - is Mr Hasbeen still at large in that caravan behind the Blooming Rose pub in Leeds?

Haven’t heard of him for some long time! Hope nothing too insignificant has happened.

Coupon-mad

He was still there offering weasel words earlier this year*:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2636473/parking-warden-fined-disabled-driver-blue-badge/

UKCPS manager Peter Haswell said: "Our warden was doing his job.

"The badge was displayed but the date was more or less obscured so it's a clear infringement.

"The use of out of date disabled badges is a common problem. But if this badge is current we will cancel the penalty."

People using out of date BBs is NOT a problem; disabled people don't get them them lightly. They are not issued for temporary illness, and these people do not suddenly lose the disability if they BB expires (unbeknown to them as there is no reminder system).

We all know what the 'problem' really is in private car parks.




* Sincere apologies for the S*n link. Being a football fan, that rag makes me sick. Never forget.