'Fine art investment' - beware!

John464

TBC15 said:

Title says it all.

If there isn’t legislation to protect the venerable, there should be.

Even if you can find them, you can't legislate against people who operate from abroad, outside your jurisdiction.
This is the problem.  Victims think the scammers wouldn't be allowed to do it.  They don't realise they phone us (or post stuff to us) from somewhere we have no control over them whatsoever, so they can say and print whatever they like.

John464

MarkCarnage said:

Worst I ever had was from a bunch of scumbags in the UK who were a debt tracing agency, pursuing some defaulter. 

If the defaulter owed you money and effectively laughed at you when you asked for it back, you might have a different view of debt tracing agencies and baliffs.

John464

MaxiRobriguez said:

 Second best approach is to answer the call but hang up as soon as possible once know it's a fishing call. I

Problem with that is that by speaking you have told them its an active number.  So they keep calling back.

Malthusian

John464 said:

TBC15 said:

Title says it all.

If there isn’t legislation to protect the venerable, there should be.

Even if you can find them, you can't legislate against people who operate from abroad, outside your jurisdiction.

Of course you can, it's just not worth the effort in this case. That's not my opinion, it's the UK Government's and the victims'.

If you killed ten people in the UK from Morocco by sending them anthrax in the post, do you think you'd stay out of jail because the UK can't legislate against people operating abroad?

ratechaser

Malthusian said:

John464 said:

TBC15 said:

Title says it all.

If there isn’t legislation to protect the venerable, there should be.

Even if you can find them, you can't legislate against people who operate from abroad, outside your jurisdiction.

Of course you can, it's just not worth the effort in this case. That's not my opinion, it's the UK Government's and the victims'.

If you killed ten people in the UK from Morocco by sending them anthrax in the post, do you think you'd stay out of jail because the UK can't legislate against people operating abroad?

Plenty of countries that are not exactly friendly to us, and where there's no extradition treaty. I guess we could send the SAS in to take out the miscreant, but there are some genuine limitations here...

NaughtiusMaximus

MaxiRobriguez said:

Golden rules to share with your elderly relatives:

1) If they have cold called you about investments, it's a scam.
2) If they tell you about guaranteed 6% returns, it's a scam.
3) If they threaten you, it's a scam.
4) If they sound foreign but give an traditional English name, it's a scam.

Do not be afraid to hang up the phone - it is not rude to do so.

There's also plenty of videos on Youtube showing how these scammers ("Investment companies", "HMRC", "Tech support" etc) operate. Pop in a search for Jim Browning or Kitboga to see just how rinse and repeat their tactics are.

tbh I just go by one rule:

1) If it's a cold call it's a scam

John464

ratechaser said:

Malthusian said:

John464 said:

TBC15 said:

Title says it all.

If there isn’t legislation to protect the venerable, there should be.

Even if you can find them, you can't legislate against people who operate from abroad, outside your jurisdiction.

Of course you can, it's just not worth the effort in this case. That's not my opinion, it's the UK Government's and the victims'.

If you killed ten people in the UK from Morocco by sending them anthrax in the post, do you think you'd stay out of jail because the UK can't legislate against people operating abroad?

Plenty of countries that are not exactly friendly to us, and where there's no extradition treaty. I guess we could send the SAS in to take out the miscreant, but there are some genuine limitations here...

They never scam anyone in the country they operate from, and are actually doing good for their home country by creating employment and bringing in foreign currency.  So not a priority for local police, who are probably in on it anyway.

NaughtiusMaximus

MarkCarnage said:

Do not be afraid to hang up the phone - it is not rude to do so.

This. x10.

I try to ignore calls from unidentified numbers, but we do have a couple of friends who have blocked their number so comes up as 'withheld' or 'unavailable'......which makes it difficult.

I either hang up on the scammers, or if they call back, they are made to wish they never had. I tend to find I never get repeat calls from these people...and indeed the calls in general stop for a while. 

Blocking withheld numbers doesn't really help anymore, scammers usually use (most likely spoofed) uk landline or mobile numbers. These days withheld numbers are actually more likely to be genuine calls rather than scams.

barnstar2077

Thank you for sharing your mum's story with us.  I hope she feels better soon.  I don't have a landline at the moment, but when I did I used to let every call go through to the answer phone and only looked at it in the evening (my friends and family knew to use my mobile.)  I found that most cold callers would just hang up without someone to talk to.  This also gives you a bit of time to google anyone who does leave a message.

Smitty77

Ian_Cartwright said:

My mother, who is 94, has invested £2,000 in what was described as an asset backed ISA with a company called Treasury Consulting Group. The person who first called her, Bridget Bentley, claimed to be endorsed by United Utilities because my mother had held shares for 15 years and she was given a 'perk' of expert financial advice. This gave her apparent credibility and my mother's ear. Bridget pursuaded her that the money she had in her bank was effectively falling rapidly in value due to current interest rates and worse ahead. She said she would be better off trusting her to invest in assets such as precious metals, coins, rare books, works of art. They were guaranteed to return at least 6% in interest.

I found out about what my mother had done when she told me rather timidly about it 4 days ago, some two and a half months after she had written the cheque. I spoke to Bridget Bentley a couple of days ago, and I can see why my mother chose to invest. She is a very personable, intelligent, knowledgible woman and she had a plausible answer to everything I queried. The main thing which did not stack up was the endorsement by United Utilities. Despite her saying their name appeared at the bottom of every shareholder's report over the last 12 years, it didn't, and the person I spoke to at Equinity who deals with U U share dealing, had not heard of them. The company is not registered with the Financial Conduct Authority, and the person I spoke to at Equinity said it was probably a scam. She said Bridget's explanation as to why they weren't registered, being that they did not hold clients' funds, but used clearing banks which were safer for the client.  In this my mother's case, she wrote a cheque to a company called Arabella Bespoke Interiors Ltd, which appeared to have been founded 1 year ago in interior design. Their website is full of stock images, one being repeated, and two being labelled as 'recent work'. She said the the claim by Bridget that they were bound by MIFID 2 (a European directive) was 'smoke and mirrors'.

In the same way as mentioned earlier, my mother's 'contract' arrived by DHL courier from Spain. A very well dressed charming chap called Colin came two days later from over 100 miles away to take away the cheque, see her sign the contract and photograph it. He was apparently someone sourced from a local council (not so local at 100 + miles away!) My mother had been asked by another independent 'Compliance Officer', David Stein, by phone ahead of Colin's visit to confirm that she was willing to sign a contract. The very minimal contract is headed 'Account Opening' with 12 months commitment and £2,000 and a reference number.

I have reported the situation to Action Fraud www.actionfraud.police.uk  The lady I spoke to there thought it was a likely scam. She gave me a crime number and recommended I spoke to my mother's bank, HSBC quoting the number. After initially being told that they could not help as my mother wrote a cheque of her own volition, when I said that she did not know what she was doing, they gave me a number to call to see if they might consider reimbursing her. I shall try that, but I have since been advised that the grounds suggested (Authorised Pushed Payment Scam) do not apply.

I have related this tale just hopefully to help further raise awareness. I have more details, should anyone be interested.

We are hoping that the 'investment' does come good, but will not be surprised if that £2,000 goes down the drain. Thankfully, my mother was not suckered in to investing £25,000, as Bridget was recommending!

P.S. When I referred Bridget to this thread, she was quick to point out that the company mentioned was not them. Their London Office is Amadeus House, Floral Street, Covent Garden, London WC2E 9DP.

Hi Ian,
if you’re still monitoring this thread, do you have any updates with how the situation turned out? Was it a scam, or did you get any of the money back from TCG, as they appear to still be operating. Any info would be much appreciated.