Civil Enforcement Limited - Lying about dates

RustyRascal

Johnersh wrote: »

If one is not filed, the court have no copy of the particulars or confirmation that you were ever served. That is the primary purpose of it.

OK, that makes sense. Thank you

Loadsofchildren123

I'm not sure the court would really care in a small claim about no N215 - but perhaps they might take it more seriously where there is an allegation that they've served backdated PoC.


It's far more serious to file an untruthful form than no form.

RustyRascal

My Directions Quesrionnaire arrived this afternoon which i completed as per the step by step guide here - http://www.bmpa.eu/court_wizard/Directions_Questionnaire.html

My plan was to send a letter of complaint about how CEL have abused the courts processes, but based on how the courts have "dealt with" complaints to date, is it really worth it?

If so, would i include a copy of this to CEL (it tells me to serve them a copy)?

Thanks

RR

Umkomaas

but based on how the courts have "dealt with" complaints to date, is it really worth it?

If there’s a handy copy and paste available from other’s complaints, then why not. Don’t forget, that as well as trying to win your own case there’s a much bigger picture here. The systematic abuse of court procedures and the misleading of defendants.

While we help individuals with their own cases, most regulars are here for the ‘bigger picture’, so please do your bit to help our fight in this. The more we ‘win’, the better it will be for your (and our) fellow motorists.

RustyRascal

Umkomaas wrote: »

If there’s a handy copy and paste available from other’s complaints, then why not. Don’t forget, that as well as trying to win your own case there’s a much bigger picture here. The systematic abuse of court procedures and the misleading of defendants.

While we help individuals with their own cases, most regulars are here for the ‘bigger picture’, so please do your bit to help our fight in this. The more we ‘win’, the better it will be for your (and our) fellow motorists.

I understand what you are saying, but the DQ goes to exactly the same place as the emails have been going. They have made it very clear that they will not be dealing with any form of complaint sent to them.

I have already got a letter printed and ready to go, but who do i address it to?

We already know that this won't make it in front of anyone who has the power to do anything and they are not interested in managing their own processes!

Just want to understand what impact you think this will have before the nest stage, which I believe is witness statements, which DO go in front of a legally qualified individual!

Don't want unconstructive feedback, so if my response gets your back up open a window before responding. I'm all for the greater good, and want to hit these guys where it will hurt, just want to understand what the potential impact of doing this at this stage will have.

Thanks

RR

nosferatu1001

The impact is that, when this gets pushed further up the chain, there is a papertrail of complaints.

Loadsofchildren123

It is worth it.


When the DQs are received, MCOL sends the file to your local court. This is the first time a judge looks at the documents. (S)he then makes an order confirming the provisional small track allocation, and setting out a timetable for service of WSs/documents etc, payment of the hearing fee by the C, and the date/time of the final hearing.


Because this is the first time an actual judge will see the papers, this is your next opportunity to invite the court to strike out the claim/disregard the further PoC.

I made some suggestions on starnold's CEL thread about what to raise in this letter and the court's powers.



I think it's important to always quote the rules. Judges don't know the rules off by heart and so they are more likely to make an order if you make it easy for them and demonstrate that they it's within their powers by quoting the rule(s).

So I would write again, but expand the letter a bit.



Have a go and I'll have a look at it. I've done various posts on yours and 777 and starnold's thread suggesting what might go in the DQ letter.



I'd also ask that when the court makes directions (if the matter is allowed to proceed) it orders that WSs are to be served sequentially rather than exchanged (the latter is the usual order), because as things stand you do not actually know how the C is going to make out its case, because it has failed to adequately explain that in its PoC or its LBC, and you are in difficulty in filing evidence until you actually understand how the case is being made out against you. Bang on a bit about how this is the very purpose of the PD - Pre-Action Conduct and the new debt Protocol, which the Claimant has ignored, but from which it is not immune. You could give examples of the sorts of documents/information you should have been provided with pre-action - eg the landowner contract under which they assert authority to operate, a copy of the full terms set out in the signage, a map showing where the signs were located etc.

Loadsofchildren123

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73455252#Comment_73455252


Interesting development on the above thread. Based on that, I'd advise that once the PoC are late, phone the court to complain rather than writing in. Only write in once the PoC have been received or if the court gives wrong advice about time limits/doesn't care. And if the PoC aren't late it's worth complaining too.


In many cases MCOL is ignoring the complaint, so my advice is to repeat it at DQ stage, because this is the first time a judge will see it (it's transferred to your local court after DQs are filed).


ixworth has also posted on another CEL thread a draft letter to send with the DQ, which I've commented on that's worth a look.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73455223#Comment_73455223


I'm not trying to hijack your thread Rusty. I'm mentioning the developments here because they are relevant to you, and also because a lot of people have been advised to keep an eye on this thread and it's a useful resource, and linking these other ones in saves us having to repeat ourselves about the same issues.

SLC80

Just as a heads up...

The email address that Amanda gave me will send back the following bounceback;

This email account is no longer in use and is unmonitored. Your message has not been forwarded.

But folk shouldn't be alarmed by this!

Having requested confirmation of receipt from Amanda, she responded within 20 mins to confirm she had received and forwarded the message and its contents on!

Get everyone to CC themselves and request confirmation of receipt and go from there.

Update: Received the below email after receiving above in red.

Good Morning

Please do NOT use this email address for court correspondence/documents. It is not manned daily. Please forward your email to the correct email address: ccbc@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

Regards

CCBC/MCOL/TEC/CAPS Helpdesk Manager
CCBC Northampton


RR, did you also get this 2nd auto response? Should I assume it has gone to Amanda or her team. Tried getting in touch to find out, no luck with CCBC today will be trying again.

RustyRascal

SLC80 wrote: »

Update: Received the below email after receiving above in red.

Good Morning

Please do NOT use this email address for court correspondence/documents. It is not manned daily. Please forward your email to the correct email address: ccbc@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

Regards

CCBC/MCOL/TEC/CAPS Helpdesk Manager
CCBC Northampton


RR, did you also get this 2nd auto response? Should I assume it has gone to Amanda or her team. Tried getting in touch to find out, no luck with CCBC today will be trying again.

Hi SLC80,

Yep, I got the exact same.

I will just keep it as evidence that you raised the complaint, also as per LOC's instruction, send a formal complaint back to the DJ with your DQ when it arrives.

RR