Payment for unused annual leave

getmore4less

NineDeuce wrote: »

Did you just miss out the bits you wanted to, or did I, firstly, not deal with the fact that teachers get more than 28 days.

Again, the public holidays being a red herring is only so if you just want to listen to your own opinion. It is fact, in law, that employers can force bank holidays to be paid leave. And surprise surprise, in most professional occupations, this is enacted, although I appreciate in your world that you suppose that teachers work on bank holidays.

Public holidays play no place in the law on holiday accrual and holiday pay.

They never have, the custom of being paid for BH pre dates the legislation that gave workers the rights to paid holidays.

The employer has total control over when you take all your holidays that some are BH is incidental.


employers that still use X+BH are living in the past and have not caught up with legislations, those that only give the statutory min and use this method with a holiday year April/March fall foul of the moving BH(easter) and some years can find they are short the statutory min.

maisie_cat

In my many years being responsible for payroll it was always based on annual salary/working days or whole weeks/part weeks.
So the argument would be that 18 days is actually 3.6 weeks so in the calculation becomes 3.6 weeks/52 weeks.
I usually find that calculating it in 2 ways to show that they come to the same result achieves the clarity issue with HR people, who are usually not good with numbers.
Some employment contracts cover this sort of issue like only accruing holiday for complete months served and the calculation for unused leave.
If her salary is say £30k, the pay is for a month, week, day £2500, £577, £115.
£115*18 is £2070
£577*3.6 is £2077 and £2500 *3.6/4.3 (avg weeks in a month) is £2093 so all in the same ballpark.

NineDeuce

getmore4less wrote: »

Public holidays play no place in the law on holiday accrual and holiday pay.

They never have, the custom of being paid for BH pre dates the legislation that gave workers the rights to paid holidays.

The employer has total control over when you take all your holidays that some are BH is incidental.


employers that still use X+BH are living in the past and have not caught up with legislations, those that only give the statutory min and use this method with a holiday year April/March fall foul of the moving BH(easter) and some years can find they are short the statutory min.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights - in law, black and white, crystal clear. That's the very first paragraph in case you choose not to read that bit. Employers also do not have to use the financial year as the holiday period year, as you have implied.

I think the only way you will be able to find out about being behind the times is by having a look in the mirror.

getmore4less

NineDeuce wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights - in law, black and white, crystal clear. That's the very first paragraph in case you choose not to read that bit. Employers also do not have to use the financial year as the holiday period year, as you have implied.

I think the only way you will be able to find out about being behind the times is by having a look in the mirror.

That is not the law that is a condensed interpretation and oversimplification.

Try the real legislation, Working time regulations.

The law is clear statutory minimum 5.6 weeks,

BH are incidental and not part of the legislation,

As long as you give the 5.6 weeks you are compliant with the statutory minimum however you describe them in the contract.

the .gov simplification uses the common example of including BH but that comes from the right of the employer to say when you take any holiday.

It could have said something like "any office closures like BH, Xmas week or summer shutdowns can be included in the statutory annual leave"

..................
I did not imply employers have to use April to March,
I said "those that only give the statutory min and use this method with a holiday year April/March..."

getmore4less

maisie_cat wrote: »

In my many years being responsible for payroll it was always based on annual salary/working days or whole weeks/part weeks.
So the argument would be that 18 days is actually 3.6 weeks so in the calculation becomes 3.6 weeks/52 weeks.
I usually find that calculating it in 2 ways to show that they come to the same result achieves the clarity issue with HR people, who are usually not good with numbers.
Some employment contracts cover this sort of issue like only accruing holiday for complete months served and the calculation for unused leave.
If her salary is say £30k, the pay is for a month, week, day £2500, £577, £115.
£115*18 is £2070
£577*3.6 is £2077 and £2500 *3.6/4.3 (avg weeks in a month) is £2093 so all in the same ballpark.

Statutory accrual does not allow complete month only and in most cases could result in an under accrual for at least parts of the year.
(which mostly effects starters, leavers during a holiday year)

NineDeuce

getmore4less wrote: »

That is not the law that is a condensed interpretation and oversimplification.

Try the real legislation, Working time regulations.

The law is clear statutory minimum 5.6 weeks,

BH are incidental and not part of the legislation,

As long as you give the 5.6 weeks you are compliant with the statutory minimum however you describe them in the contract.

the .gov simplification uses the common example of including BH but that comes from the right of the employer to say when you take any holiday.

It could have said something like "any office closures like BH, Xmas week or summer shutdowns can be included in the statutory annual leave"

..................
I did not imply employers have to use April to March,
I said "those that only give the statutory min and use this method with a holiday year April/March..."

What's the issue? The employer can still enforce leave to be taken on public holidays if they so wish.

I dont understand why you are arguing. What I just stated with the aid of the gov.uk link still falls under the interpretation under the law which even you have presented.

GIven PH enforcement is common-place, it is relevant to the OP's post, as teachers do not work bank holidays. It would sound over-engineered to provide a response covering every eventuality such as an office closure. We would be here all day. (Talk about being nitpicking).