Payment for unused annual leave

sangie595

getmore4less wrote: »

There is no way that each days holiday is worth 1/165 of annual salary could comply with working time regulations and the employment act which clearly states a weeks holiday is worth a weeks pay.

In the extreme for a 5 day a week worker with statutory holidays (5.6 weeks/28 days).

if you worked 46.4 weeks and were to get the the last 5.6 weeks paid as holiday that would 10.77% of the annual salary

If paid out at 28/365 that would be 7.67% of annual salary.


Note 1: The way the legislation is written the calculation for accrued unused results in a different type of underpayment.

Note 2: For term time working where the pay is spread over 52 weeks the calculations may need adjusting if you leave part way through the holiday year as the true weeks pay is not the actual weeks pay.

You are supposing that "a week" is a specific thing, and it isn't. A "week" might be five days. It might be seven days. For some employers it's actually six days. How payroll is calculated is something very different. As I have stated, there are still a fair few public sector employers calculate payroll in the way the OP describes, and none of them have fallen foul of the law on holiday pay. And most of them - plus the others whose employers do it the other way - aren't on weekly pay anyway, but monthly pay. Holiday is, for full time workers, irrespective of what full time hours are, a minimum of 28 days with pay. "A weeks pay" is a moveable feast - it can vary for an enormous number of reasons, and all quite legitimate. What matters here is an explanation of the payroll method utilised by this employer, and the factors which apply to make up whatever the normal salary is. We don't know that. So we can't say that the employer is right- or wrong. We simply don't have enough information to assert anything.

NineDeuce

The employee is entitled to a week's paid salary every quarter. Therefore, if on average he/she works 40 hours over a given quarter, they are entitled to 40 hours pay.

I appreciate that teachers dont generally get an hourly rate, but a monthly salary but the same priniciple applies. The only issue to work out is how much the holiday pay is over a year. Teachers get ample time off but it depends how much of the time is under the law classed as holiday.

sangie595

NineDeuce wrote: »

The employee is entitled to a week's paid salary every quarter. Therefore, if on average he/she works 40 hours over a given quarter, they are entitled to 40 hours pay.

I appreciate that teachers dont generally get an hourly rate, but a monthly salary but the same priniciple applies. The only issue to work out is how much the holiday pay is over a year. Teachers get ample time off but it depends how much of the time is under the law classed as holiday.

Really? A week a quarter? How do you work that out? Because that would be less that the statutory leave (28 days) and how do you know what the OPs entitlement is - they haven't said. They are also not a teacher. And if you want to discuss whether teachers get "ample" time off, this isn't the place to do it, and has no relevance to a thread about someone who isn't a teacher anyway.

NineDeuce

sangie595 wrote: »

Really? A week a quarter? How do you work that out? Because that would be less that the statutory leave (28 days) and how do you know what the OPs entitlement is - they haven't said. They are also not a teacher. And if you want to discuss whether teachers get "ample" time off, this isn't the place to do it, and has no relevance to a thread about someone who isn't a teacher anyway.

Yes, I appreciate that I made some assumptions. The minimum is 28 days but the employer has the right to impose bank holidays to make up this entitlement. Teachers, as well as many other professions, typically are given the time off for all 8 annual bank holidays, so that's where I get to 20.

I dont know what the OP's subject's annual leave entitlement is, but if you actually read my post you would see that I mentioned that the same principle of leave entitlement applies regardless.

The point about teachers having ample time off was that I am not certain whether it is legally written in their contracts that they have 13-14 weeks off - the aggregated school holiday period + bank holidays. If it were, then a teacher leaving midway through a year would be entitled to 5-7 weeks full holiday pay and that doesn't seem right.

However, if you dont want to discuss whether teachers get ample time off, then don't mention it. It only becomes a discussion if somebody else starts discussing it.

getmore4less

sangie595 wrote: »

You are supposing that "a week" is a specific thing, and it isn't. .

A week is a very specific thing for the purposes of a weeks pay
A 7 day period,

The number of days normally worked it not is not relevant as the calculation of the "weeks" pay is for those 7 days.

The legislation allows for adjustment/averaging(12 weeks) if not paid weekly or the remuneration is not constant.


If the employer has designated a days pay as 1/365 of a annual pay then a weeks pay for statutory payments should be 7 of those units.

sangie595

getmore4less wrote: »

A week is a very specific thing for the purposes of a weeks pay
A 7 day period,

The number of days normally worked it not is not relevant as the calculation of the "weeks" pay is for those 7 days.

The legislation allows for adjustment/averaging(12 weeks) if not paid weekly or the remuneration is not constant.


If the employer has designated a days pay as 1/365 of a annual pay then a weeks pay for statutory payments should be 7 of those units.

I am aware of that. Which is why, until the OP can confirm the basis upon which payroll is normally calculated, it is impossible to assume anything. If the calculation is based on seven days per week, then the days pay is very different than if it is based on five days a week. This wouldn't be noticeable to an employee during employment unless they actually knew, or sat down and worked it out

sangie595

NineDeuce wrote: »

Yes, I appreciate that I made some assumptions. The minimum is 28 days but the employer has the right to impose bank holidays to make up this entitlement. Teachers, as well as many other professions, typically are given the time off for all 8 annual bank holidays, so that's where I get to 20.

I dont know what the OP's subject's annual leave entitlement is, but if you actually read my post you would see that I mentioned that the same principle of leave entitlement applies regardless.

The point about teachers having ample time off was that I am not certain whether it is legally written in their contracts that they have 13-14 weeks off - the aggregated school holiday period + bank holidays. If it were, then a teacher leaving midway through a year would be entitled to 5-7 weeks full holiday pay and that doesn't seem right.

However, if you dont want to discuss whether teachers get ample time off, then don't mention it. It only becomes a discussion if somebody else starts discussing it.

Teachers, which the OP ISNmT[bU], and other professions, typically get more than 28 days! And public holidays are a red herring. It is not true that people get one week a quarter. They get 28 days minimum per year.

jobbingmusician

sangie595 wrote: »

You are supposing that "a week" is a specific thing, and it isn't. A "week" might be five days. It might be seven days. For some employers it's actually six days. How payroll is calculated is something very different. As I have stated, there are still a fair few public sector employers calculate payroll in the way the OP describes, and none of them have fallen foul of the law on holiday pay. And most of them - plus the others whose employers do it the other way - aren't on weekly pay anyway, but monthly pay. Holiday is, for full time workers, irrespective of what full time hours are, a minimum of 28 days with pay. "A weeks pay" is a moveable feast - it can vary for an enormous number of reasons, and all quite legitimate. What matters here is an explanation of the payroll method utilised by this employer, and the factors which apply to make up whatever the normal salary is. We don't know that. So we can't say that the employer is right- or wrong. We simply don't have enough information to assert anything.

Hence my question to the OP (not answered) - WHAT DOES THE CONTRACT SAY?

sangie595

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Hence my question to the OP (not answered) - WHAT DOES THE CONTRACT SAY?

Yes. Although obviously the details of payroll calculations don't appear in the written contract as a norm, so one would need to ask.

NineDeuce

sangie595 wrote: »

Teachers, which the OP ISNmT[bU], and other professions, typically get more than 28 days! And public holidays are a red herring. It is not true that people get one week a quarter. They get 28 days minimum per year.

Did you just miss out the bits you wanted to, or did I, firstly, not deal with the fact that teachers get more than 28 days.

Again, the public holidays being a red herring is only so if you just want to listen to your own opinion. It is fact, in law, that employers can force bank holidays to be paid leave. And surprise surprise, in most professional occupations, this is enacted, although I appreciate in your world that you suppose that teachers work on bank holidays.