Elite 11+ shopping and chat thread part 2½

Savvybuyer

.:hello:Good morning!:j

I'm told that it was exactly five years ago today that I joined this website and posted on one of the old Elite threads:D. It was a gift set glitch that first got me posting, nowhere near as good as any of the ones ongoing (or which drop on and off seemingly at will depending on whether Mr T is mucking things up:(). Once I had posted, I haven't been able to stop since - and I've been here ever since. Was one of those comps. on the gift sets earlier vs Morries? I've already given up getting any details of gift sets in M:doh: (as far as I know I just see the same ones on 2 for £8) as I though T's prices were miles better. Anyway, five years:eek:. And six years 2 months, on and off, collecting M prices:rotfl:. I had already been doing that, just for myself privately and only items I was actually planning to buy a few days later, obviously for a little over a year, during most of which I was unaware of these threads - I found them, probably from some search result happening to turn the thread up, I don't remember now, and didn't join or post anything myself until, eventually, I thought people ought to know about a glitch I had already know about for some time and from there, the M list, originally supposed to be a "one off" I said:rotfl:, just moved into every section of the grocery store, whether or not I bought any of the items myself, and expanded:eek:.

I started with M and the M list, originally sometimes just a private list of about 10-15 items on the back of an envelope, after I once did a shop, including some Shredded Wheat, intending to target T and we had T, S and W prices online - I was never sure if A compared against W at that stage - I got the comparison against T that I had hoped for; however I looked at the other comparisons on the shop and saw that the Shredded Wheat was even cheaper in M but my other items on the shop meant that it lost out there and I just got 10% off the T price that I had actually known about. I didn't even visit M at that time as A was my nearest store, the only major supermarket I used, and I knew nothing about what the prices in M were. Now I think about it, I obtained the Shredded Wheat from A for more than it would have been had I just bought it in M. Obviously I didn't split my shops to Avs M, I had just been comparing against T and S alternately but this one shop came out with that item cheapest at M. That got me interested in M prices, wondering what else I could get much cheaper if I compared against M. In my view, M is one of the best stores, often, certainly at that time, having very good offers that were sometimes way cheaper than the other places, although T is also a place that every so often has the best prices that other stores tend to not to match on the shelf. Thanks to that Shredded Wheat, I started visiting M, looking for items of the type I would be buying and seeing which was the best item for me then to buy in A. I compiled my shopping list from my visit to M (which wasn't too bad as it was about twenty minutes/half an hour in the evening and was close to my workplace, so I could just pop there and then come home - also helped me avoid the rush hour that I always try to work around:rotfl:) - I'd do my shopping when I had time at the weekend, at A near my home, buying the items I had from M on the previous Wednesday, which was obviously still valid. By the time I started here, I already had a significant list of items from previous weeks that I just kept if they were still on, I used a single M store:eek:, the one near my work each time, although my shopping in A to be fair usually worked, and, because I already had the list in handwriting, it wasn't much of a problem sharing it with you good people here:).

zippydooda

TrulyMadly wrote: »

Sorry marmie, I think I’m confusing things. I was thinking we were talking about a straight forward comparison, where there’s a price drop in A but price remains the same in T. In that case, the APG would not be as high, but you would still only be paying T price less 10%.

Should I go to bed?:rotfl:

in simple terms, you are wrong and marmite is spot on
you are going wrong on "the straight comparison" it is not.
as you get the extra comparison of the free one, so the bigger the difference the better.

Savvybuyer

davemorton wrote: »

Poor fillers list, feeling all neglected. (flumps, ginger and wine does , oh, and mushy peas. )

I've just written a long post about how difficult it will be to keep track of all this, without systematically visiting stores (I find that a lot easier to see what's on offer than trying to find it online) and about wombles often providing random items that don't always keep track of the items that are already on the fillers list, only for the screen to flash and I've lost the entire lot! Some things never change:rotfl:. 3Dogs is doing a very good job (far better than me keeping track of those gift sets and having them sorted into order:T) on the list and the fillers list is just something that is nice to do but has to get left nearly every time (a bit like the A prices on my list, I have enough to do updating the M items and prices and, after that, I don't often feel like going on to checking every item down the list to see if A's price has now changed - items get done as and when I come across them and wombles quite often alert me to a change of A price). I think updating the fillers lists will be a very long job indeed.

I don't really know the prices for anywhere except M. I tend to find items for T when I am doing a shop against there, and then later find I didn't become aware of something I could have done with buying and have to do another shop - so much less efficient! It was so much easier when I had time to do separate lists for all the various places. As for vs S, I think Mullers are fillers:rotfl:. Probably every other item should just be deleted off vs S - it would be a lot easier then and would just work using the trigger and the Muller Lights and Rices that S has.

I have already thought about doing lists regarding the various competitors for all the non-H&B glitch items and what goes versus where, but just never found time to identify what items are against which place (except for M that I already have the list of items for).

I haven't really looked at the fillers lists lately and seen whether items on them are in or out of date - I couldn't even tell you what was on against the places other than M at the moment, except for the right Mullers against S and I am buying Birds Eye Crispy Chicken Dippers 24 pack against T again somewhat before 12th December. Other than that, I mainly stick to my usual SP items that haven't changed that I just remember which place they go against. You just get to know what goes against which competitor when you do it regularly (or I do anyway:rotfl:).

I don't need a list:rotfl:. The fillers I think will be difficult to update or time-consuming to check each item online and, if you only want confirmed comparisons, you won't be able to track some items through wombles if they happen not to buy them again. Other than that, it's a delete everything and start from scratch with the latest womble results posted - might be easier to get an up-to-date list that way I think.

I haven't really looked at the fillers lists lately and I don't know much that goes against the non-M competitors these days. Quite a few of the items on the fillers list against M are items that I'm not tracking and don't have the ability to track, on top of my (supposed) "good items" vs M. Some of them are items of the kind that I used to have several years ago, but we've seen temporary RTCs (that move around for several months across stores in M:rotfl:) that have made 10% off rather standard offer prices look no good or we've had the rare better than normal offer price on them once, after which the standard offer price has looked very poor and then never considered again or the product ever suggested to be bought against the higher usual offer price ever since. I therefore don't usually track these items in M, standard offers usually of £1 that are way too expensive compared to some really cheap RTC - the time I track them, temporarily, is when there is an A glitch involving them - for example the crisps, I then get items that are in that A offer and start tracking them in M but I am at the start a little slow off the mark as I won't know a glitch is on - the glitch happens, I am caught with no information:o:o, and then I go and look at what M prices on higher individual priced A items in the offer are, the glitch is usually some way in or ends by the time I have the information:(:rotfl:.

Some items on the M fillers list I won't be able to say, offhand, whether the prices in M are still on or not and I don't have the ability to track all the items I do in M plus these items in M as well. It's harder that you think: to print off the fillers list and then go and try and check all the items on it. It's like one of my carryover lists at the end of a store. It's worse to check for all those items that just try and get everything through the store (and then miss the stuff I then have to go back and check:rotfl:) - well not really, but I am just moving around from aisle to aisle trying to find everything. I might give the fillers list a go on one of my non-M price collection days. That is if I ever get time in between them to do that, which I most probably won't. The only thing I can suggest - and I would say this wouldn't I? - is, if you want fillers for vs M, just go and have a look at my M list. Mind you, I need to get that up-to-date again - it should alright at the moment, apart from buying in M what has already expired, as the APG is probably on Monday like I am - the expiry dates on the list nowadays may help although some of the item rolled over - such as the Jacob's Mini Cheddars and Crispy Thins (the varieties that I have on the list as, to my knowledge, those are the only ones M has). I need to delete the expired items (or cross them out), which, from a comprehensive (or attempt at comprehensive) check across stores, that tries to pick up everything on the list (except items I am happy about or items such as RTCs that will just be ongoing in another store that still has such an item), is actually usually a very quick job - probably takes about 20 minutes to get the list "up-to-date" that way (as far as what is on it).

The exception is times when they are lots of small changes, one way and the other, where I am not entirely sure precisely what is on and off until I go through the information I have to find it again, and then I have deleted what I can remember at the outset but might have missed the odd item here or there which is in fact expired (which I will find later when updating everything). Normally though it's a case of being reminded of what's on and off by seeing it, which my list does - I go and look at it and then immediately recall "this is off, that is and that is too" and I just delete or cross out everything that's gone within a fairly short time if I don't get interrupted by something else. I will go and have a look at the list on here as soon as I can and, this time, it is probably fairly straightforward and the expired items will be taken away. The real task is in adding the new items (ones in a range that are the one that somehow got missed as they weren't in any of the numerous stores previously visited) and in checking to see whether the M price is really any good or whether A is already a lot cheaper or more useless price match that gives little APG and is only worthwhile if something else in your shop is giving something significant or whether another competitor to A is cheaper than M, even if by a penny, in which case the items do not get to the list - or if Boots or Superdrug for example are cheaper on an item than 10% cheaper than anywhere on the APG.

There you are - I now wrote, and successfully posted, a different post - that now said some or most of the points I was saying in the lost post.

Savvybuyer

zippydooda wrote: »

in simple terms, you are wrong and marmite is spot on
you are going wrong on "the straight comparison" it is not.
as you get the extra comparison of the free one, so the bigger the difference the better.

But if you're comparing from a cheaper A price, surely you lose out on APG amount?

The point at which it matters is if A becomes more than 10% cheaper than the competitor's price.

Even on a 3 for 2 with all items comparing from individual A price and not accounting for the effective price per item after the deal, if the A price dropped, you wouldn't get as much APG. If for example A was £1.50 individually, we'll treat all three items as the same price, and the competitor £1, you'd have one "free" £1.50 but £1.50 vs £1 times 3. Is 60p x3 or £1.80. If A's price dropped to £1, you'd have 10p each item (£1 vs £1) - just 30p. Moreover, the "value" of your 'free' item would be just £1.

If it's three at £1.50 but paying for two, you pay £3 (and get £1.80 back on the above competitor price, for simplicity again assume the competitor is same price on each). If it's £1 A price you pay £2 and get 30p. £3 less £1.80 = £1.20 but £2 - 30p = £1.70. The cheaper A price costs you more. Unless I am missing something. Which I probably am:rotfl:. Maybe I ought just to get to bed?:rotfl::rotfl:

As for straight comparisons 10% cheaper - if A goes more than 10% cheaper than a competitor, the item should be bought against a cheaper competitor against which A isn't more than 10% cheaper - there's little point buying it, except as a filler, against the cheapest competitor if A is exactly 10% cheaper - or should just be bought in A by itself on a non-APG shop (especially if it compares badly vs everywhere) or, if it is a branded item and you're already doing a full shop against A in T, should maybe be bought in T if they have it - you then get CC points on A's prices on items that compare, unless another competitor comes out overall cheaper which, if you are targetting A it should never do). On straight comparisons where A still isn't 10% cheaper, despite putting its price down, the end result is the same - however, if you have a voucher amount to spend to purchase the shop in the first place, a price being lowered by A means you have to buy additional unnecessary items that, at the higher price, as long as you already had 8 that would appear, would not have been needed to be bought. You are then - it is not the same end result, you are buying and paying for additional items (10% cheaper than competitor) that would not be on your shop at all if it was more efficient, with nice high A prices that reached your voucher amount and gave you more back off the next shop. Therefore, whilst the price on the individual item at 10% cheaper than the competitor remains constant, with no change in the competitor price, you are adding the cost of additional items that now also need to be bought (to reach the voucher and spend it against the shop) - further, it does not give as much APG amount back and, unless it is the Mullers vs Sains:rotfl:, the spend now requiring on the excess, due to A reducing its price by that amount, is now never going to give 100% of its value back.

If you would have bought a £2 item in A that remains at £1 at the rival but is lowered in price in A to £1, you are now £1 short. The £2 item would have given £1.10 back. However, at £1, the item now gives 10p. The APG is now £1 lower. You need to spend a further £1 to reach your voucher you are using against the shop, to be able to spend that voucher - no further £1 item will give the £1 APG back that was lost to A's price reduction. The best you can usually do is add an item at £1 that's on 50p at the competitor (if you can find such an item and if it's cost after 10% is reasonable). That will get you 60p back of the £1 that was 'lost' by buying the £1 r'back item instead of the same item when it was £2. But the £2 price, priced £1 higher than the competitor, would give all that excess back plus the 10%. You still get the 10% at £1 A price - however the excess price, reaching your voucher to spend, would have to give its entire value back in APG in order to give you the same APG amount. Clearly, that does not happen as it would need a competitor price of 0p - unless it is a glitch item that is net free or better.

Of course, if you pay cash or debit/credit card for your A shop, then it does not matter as you don't have to spend more. However, your APG resulting from it will be lower and, whilst easier to spend it next time, probably on cheaper items when more expensive ones that you can't afford with your voucher, that are much cheaper or on a better offer elsewhere, are a lot better - a different pack size working out much cheaper due to a competitor's better unit price and then 10% off rather than A's own worse price per unit on a r'back, unless you have a discount card, does not give you 10% off its cost.

zippydooda

help please.

am i missing something, as at this moment hukd thinks the 1/2 beef later in waitrose is a good deal.
the offer is on angus sirloin and rump joints.
now at half price it looks to me that the rump is still double the price of a british beef joint in morrisons. https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Morrisons-Market-St-British-Beef-Joint/370545011?utm_source=tradedoubler_digidip+UK&utm_medium=affiliate&dclid=CMfwreKd9NcCFRiuUQodiwcJ5Q&sku=370545011&parentContainer=&voucherCode=&dnr=y&sku=370545011&parentContainer=&voucherCode=
or is the waitrose meet worth the extra.
i need to know be mid-day please

zippydooda

Savvybuyer wrote: »

But if you're comparing from a cheaper A price, surely you lose out on APG amount?

The point at which it matters is if A becomes more than 10% cheaper than the competitor's price.

Even on a 3 for 2 with all items comparing from individual A price and not accounting for the effective price per item after the deal, if the A price dropped, you wouldn't get as much APG. If for example A was £1.50 individually, we'll treat all three items as the same price, and the competitor £1, you'd have one "free" £1.50 but £1.50 vs £1 times 3. Is 60p x3 or £1.80. If A's price dropped to £1, you'd have 10p each item (£1 vs £1) - just 30p. Moreover, the "value" of your 'free' item would be just £1.

If it's three at £1.50 but paying for two, you pay £3 (and get £1.80 back on the above competitor price, for simplicity again assume the competitor is same price on each). If it's £1 A price you pay £2 and get 30p. £3 less £1.80 = £1.20 but £2 - 30p = £1.70. The cheaper A price costs you more. Unless I am missing something. Which I probably am:rotfl:. Maybe I ought just to get to bed?:rotfl::rotfl:

do the maths as marmit did.
the sets work out cheaper before they were reduced
eg after comparison they were £1.60 each
now theve reduced them, they work out at £2.10 each

i dont care what the apg is, its the actual cost after the apg which is important to me.

Savvybuyer

zippydooda wrote: »

help please.

am i missing something, as at this moment hukd thinks the 1/2 beef later in waitrose is a good deal.
the offer is on angus sirloin and rump joints.
now at half price it looks to me that the rump is still double the price of a british beef joint in morrisons. https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Morrisons-Market-St-British-Beef-Joint/370545011?utm_source=tradedoubler_digidip+UK&utm_medium=affiliate&dclid=CMfwreKd9NcCFRiuUQodiwcJ5Q&sku=370545011&parentContainer=&voucherCode=&dnr=y&sku=370545011&parentContainer=&voucherCode=
or is the waitrose meet worth the extra.
i need to know be mid-day please

Not really as some people seem to think what to me are quite expensive prices are good offers. I think this is probably due to lack of knowledge about previous offer prices, competitor prices and what really are cheapest or items that approach fairly cheapest prices. I sometimes mess up only to find what I thought looked cheap really wasn't as it goes much better afterwards. You improve over time and then, as I suggested last time, you never buy anything at all as none of the offer prices ever approach what was really good on one item some time before.

Even the beef joint in M is not reaching my price guide at the moment:rotfl:. The important thing to look at is not the "half price" which seems to attract people but instead what the actual price per kg. of the product currently and whether that is as cheap as the cheapest offers. Of course, really it should be DTD at Tesco on mispriced beef or shortdated really low price stuff.

As for "good deals", one of the posts on HUKD recently was about a bottle of 1L alcohol in M at £16 - ignoring all the £15 offers on several of the other bottles:rotfl:. Mind you I have just been reminded of how those were, more unusually, £14.72 or something very much like that on one time a while ago:rotfl::rotfl:.

With a £15 price, the 10% cheaper as well becomes more significant. Here, even if you buy seven other items at notional 10p each at A, to qualify for the APG, it still works out cheaper than buying the bottle at straight £15 in M (unless you have discount card there in which case the one item is of course cheaper). With a £1 item, 10% off is 10p (regardless of the excess A price, if it is in excess and you get that back in any event - I am assuming everything compares correctly). If you just have the one item and aren't buying any more, there is little way you can divide 10p up into seven more items.

With higher value items such as alcohol, the 10% itself can be significant. You could just buy 7 more 10p items each and pay less (after APG) than buying at straight £15. The APG gives you £1.50 more (same thing regardless of the A price, as long as not more than 10% cheaper, in which case buying the one item in A alone saves you more and you don't need the 10p sweets). If 10% of the competitor's price is £1.50, you can buy further items that cost less in total than that and get the APG (it's also then slightly more than £1.50 as some sweets give a penny each as again not 10% cheaper - as long as you don't buy any daft item that is significantly more expensive at the competitor).

However, it would perhaps be better if you already had a shop that you were doing of items that you were already going to buy and need against the same competitor, would have been getting 10% cheaper on those items and can just add the further item you need/want and get the 10% with no further items beyond that addition needed. Arguably the best situation is if your other shop, you were already to do but were short, consisted of exactly 7 different appearing items.

Then you just add the one item and are done - nothing excessive to the need being bought:money:. If you don't already have a shop ready, then, whilst buying in A with 7 different items (of total cost of somewhat lower than £1.50) on a £15 competitor item would be net better than buying at straight £15 in the competitor, you would still be buying fillers that you may not need (other than to get the APG) and would be paying for them, beyond any items that would have been on a shop you already had to do that you did not have. When you later come to that shop, you've now spent that shop plus the fillers and are possibly one item short of qualifying for an APG - would have been so much better just to add the item from before and not have to buy that with fillers.

Savvybuyer

To some extent - I have thought about this before but not posted it - aren't we inflation-proof on wombles on the APG?

The 10% is off the competitor's prices and a higher price has more 10% (but loses out if A is cheaper and loses completely once A is 10% cheaper). If prices everywhere rise by X%, then doesn't this make - although we have to use wombles to purchase items from A at now higher prices (like everywhere else in this scenario) - the womble values increase over time, as competitor prices are going up too - if A's and the competitor's price both increase to the same higher price, 10% cheaper is now more pence.

So, for example, although buying milk and getting 10% cheaper than now higher competitor prices works out at a still more expensive price than before (as competitors' prices have gone up), as regards people on wombles buying the milk and having our comparison - the APG amount in strict pence we get back is slightly higher. When the 4 pint milk was 99p and comparing against £1 everywhere else, the item was contributing 9p. 10% cheaper than £1 is 90p. Now 4 pint milk is £1.09 in A and £1.10 elsewhere. It has risen by 10p in both and is more costly for the purchaser and also ten per cent cheaper than £1.10, if we have to buy the product, is obviously more expensive than 10% cheaper than £1. However, instead of 9p contribution to a hopefully positive APG with the 9p in it (or else getting nowt anyway), £1.10 less 10% is 11p off instead of 10p off. That is now 99p, meaning 10p back from an A price at £1.09. 1p more APG, wombles that were positive before that bought no more than 10 of the milk of the exact same type, that now include milk at £1.09 vs £1.10 rather than 99p vs £1, are now giving a penny APG more than they did before.

So, we may have to pay more for that milk now when we need and buy it ourselves, however our wombles with it now are giving us 1p more. This doesn't cancel out the price increase (which depends on whether you were comparing it before or just buying it at straight 99p on its own from A, I suspect we all do a bit of both as our needs don't always time in with our APG shops and having 8 items to buy) - however several positive wombles added together the 1p is multiplied by however many have milk, each time it is bought. I didn't say it covered the whole cost, I said "to some extent", therefore we are getting more off increased prices everywhere. And, if it is a general trend, a general overall rate of inflation that, on average, covers items that most people commonly buy, then it will apply on every item that has increased in cost at all places and not just milk. If a shop consists of enough items and has all its items having increased in price everywhere, then the penny is given on each item (notionally) and becomes in total worth more. If everywhere is going up by 3%, then it ought to be 3%.

Let us not concentrate on individual items, as that is not what is compared on the APG, let's instead concentrate on the overall bill. If the overall bill, and both A and the competitor, on a shop that was always positive APG before where the bill totals at both A and the competitor were roughly the same and therefore roughly 10% off A's bill (as it's round about the same as the competitor's bill), increases by 3% at both, is the APG now increased by 3%?

If before it was £100 vs £100, that was £10 APG. Now it is 3% more expensive at both - £103 vs £103. That needs to be set back to £92.70. That's now £10.30 back no longer £10. That is a 3% increase in the APG amount.:D Inflation proof. And it is paying for our goods from A, so the 3% is covering the 3% inflation cost. We are no better off, but we are not worse off as our wombles, which are now higher due to price increases across everything on average of 3% everywhere, are covering the 3% average increased cost of the goods we purchase. I know it doesn't actually work like this. Perhaps as I said before we (or some of us) may not be heavily impacted by this, if our purchasing habits happen to be of items that are not generally increasing in cost and if we rarely buy or don't buy items that are in the inflation basket - we may, if we don't happen to need what people more generally usually do, have a personal inflation rate that is very different from the general one. It also doesn't account for glitches and getting some things better than free or better than ever they have worked out before (e.g. 4p sets).

izzeyb

zippydooda wrote: »

help please.

am i missing something, as at this moment hukd thinks the 1/2 beef later in waitrose is a good deal.
the offer is on angus sirloin and rump joints.
now at half price it looks to me that the rump is still double the price of a british beef joint in morrisons. https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Morrisons-Market-St-British-Beef-Joint/370545011?utm_source=tradedoubler_digidip+UK&utm_medium=affiliate&dclid=CMfwreKd9NcCFRiuUQodiwcJ5Q&sku=370545011&parentContainer=&voucherCode=&dnr=y&sku=370545011&parentContainer=&voucherCode=
or is the waitrose meet worth the extra.
i need to know be mid-day please

I am hanging on in the hope we get bubbs' beef again this year

.

izzeyb

Celebrations tub £3.50 in Iceland today.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/celebrations-680g-tub-350-iceland-on-8th-december-max-4-per-customer-2850004

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