Help with VCS

togstein

A driver has been getting demands about 4 parking offences at WYG Stratford Manchester as they where parked on a grass verge on a road they thought they were a scam and ignored them , they have now told me that they have a letter from the court ( County Court business letter ) dated 16 /10/17 . I've looked through it the claim is for 421.48 + 35 court fee each offence is £100 inc two from the same day . With help from this forum I have opened a deference on MCOL and I could do with some help moving on . Thanks

Umkomaas

Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 which guides you right through the whole county court process, from the LBA to the court hearing - and all the bits in between. Use that as your guide as you progress through this.

Redx

it will be the KEEPER that received the demands and the MCOL, assuming the driver was never named

as for the location, it is WYG in STRETFORD , Manchester

http://stretford-2.uk2companies.co.uk/other/wyg-stretford/

as mentioned above , get the POC checked and start drafting a defence

KeithP

togstein wrote: »

...I have opened a deference on MCOL and I could do with some help moving on.

I hope this doesn't mean you have filed a defence on MCOL. :eek:

togstein

That's what I was advised to do on here

Redx

you cannot change a defence once you have submitted it , not without paying a lot of money anyway

the advice on here is to leave the defence box BLANK , dont write anything in it

then you have 28 days to draft a defence and submit it

if you have already files your defence , then post it on here

if not , start drafting a defence and post it on here , for critique and feedback (like everyone else is told to do)

KeithP

togstein wrote: »

That's what I was advised to do on here

Not true.

The advice you were given on your other thread was:

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

Well time is NOT an issue if you do the FIRST thing the court claims section tells you to do, which is to ACKNOWLEDGE THE CLAIM

You do this online
do not contest jurisdiction
do not start the defence - this must be ENTIRELY blank

Once done you have 33 days from date of issue. LOTS of time.

Why have you started another thread?

Coupon-mad

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73307910#Comment_73307910

Should have replied on your thread to say you'd done the AOS, which is explained in simple pictures in the NEWBIES thread link about doing AOS. The picture step-by-step guide is there to stop people defending wrongly, just acknowledge.

We hope you DID NOT click 'start defence'?

You have not had advice on a defence here yet in your thread, nor did you show us your draft defence. What did you put?

Please continue on your main thread, this one isn't needed, one thread one case please.

togstein

Sorry if I'm confusing people , I followed the advice , I didn't click start defence , my confusion was that The fact I had put my intention to defend all of the claim gave me the impression I had started to file a defence . Also I misinterpreted the advice and started a brand new thread , I will continue on this one and start to put together a defence on here for critique , any help doing so judged on my first post would be appreciated. Thanks

togstein

Close to my final date for submitting a defence , and to be honest my heads wrecked I have read so many defences hoping they would provide some inspiration . The main items of my case that I can see are the fact that the company are saying that I parked within a compound and there where signs with t&cs on the entrance and in prominent locations , The car has never bee parked within such compound only outside on a grass verge adjacent to a main road . Also two of the notices are for the same day . Any help in integrating this in a defence would be appreciated.

togstein

Ok after deleting many, I have decided to use another as a template for the defence , I would be grateful if it could be scrutinised and criticized where need also I would of liked to have included the points from the previous post but didn't know how or where to introduce them . If I can or if there necessary any input would be appreciated as I only have a couple of days . Thanks in advance




In the County Court Business Centre
Between:
Vehicle Control Services
V
XXXXXXXXXXX


Claim Number: XXXXXXXX



I, XXXXXXXXXXXXX, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

• The Claim Form issued on 16/10/2017 by Vehicle Control Services was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Vehicle Control Services”.
• This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017). As an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

a. There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.
b. This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.
c. The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.
d. The Claim Form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information.
The Claim Form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs. These documents, and the ‘Letter before County Court Claim’ should have been produced, pursuant to paragraph 6 of the Practice Direction – Pre Action Conduct. This constitutes a deliberate attempt to thwart any efforts to defend the claim or to “take stock”, pursuant to paragraph 12 of the Practice Direction. Again, this totally contradicts the guidance outlined in the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (2017), the aims of which are:

i. ‘early engagement and communication between the parties, including early exchange of sufficient information about the matter to help clarify whether there are any issues in dispute
ii. enable the parties to resolve the matter without the need to start court proceedings, including agreeing a reasonable repayment plan or considering using an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) procedure
iii. encourage the parties to act in a reasonable and proportionate manner in all dealings with one another (for example, avoiding running up costs which do not bear a reasonable relationship to the sums in issue) and
iv. support the efficient management of proceedings that cannot be avoided.’
e. The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as disclosing no cause of action and having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.
f. Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

i. Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge
ii. A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)
iii. How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)
iv. Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper
v. Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter
vi. If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed
vii. If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed.
g. Once these Particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file another defence.
• The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper. They cannot pluck another sum from thin air and bolt that on as well when it is believed that neither the signs, nor any NTK mentioned a possible additional £149.66 for outstanding debt and damages.
• The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 'legal representative’s (or even admin) costs’ were incurred.
• This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. As far as I can ascertain, based upon the very vague particulars of claim and complete lack of evidence and photographs, and without having been furnished with the alleged signage 'contract', none of this applies in this material case.
• In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.

a. The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.
b. In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.
c. Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:

i. Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) of site/entrance signage - breach of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
ii. It is believed the signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in requiring a huge inflated sum as 'compensation' from by an authorised party using the premises as intended.
iii. No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
iv. The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
d. BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:

i. the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
ii. the sum pursued exceeds £100.
iii. there is / was no compliant landowner contract.
• No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
It is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.
• The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.
• The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.
• Due to the length of time, the Defendant has little to no recollection of the day in question. It would not be reasonable to expect a registered keeper to be able to recall the potential driver(s) of the car over 10 months later. In any case, there is no such obligation in law and this was confirmed in the POPLA Annual Report 2015 by parking expert barrister and Lead Adjudicator, Henry Greenslade, who also clarified the fact that registered keeper can only be held liable under the POFA Schedule 4 and not by presumption or any other legal argument.


The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:

• Failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on 11th October 2017.
• Sent a template, well-known to be generic cut and paste 'Particulars' of claim relying on irrelevant case law (Beavis) which ignores the fact that this Claimant cannot hold registered keepers liable in law, due to their own choice of non-POFA documentation.


The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.

I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.