Dangerous Dog Living Next Door!

mckln335

Hello,


I'm not sure if this post is in the correct section so Mods please feel free to move if necessary!


We bought our first home (a semi-detached property) in July 2015. We met our neighbour on the first day we moved in and she seemed pleasant enough, if a little bit 'crazy.' We believe she owns 3 dogs, 2 of what we thought were large Staffordshire Bull Terriers and one smaller Yorkshire Terrier type dog. She has always had problems with the 2 'Staffys' escaping from her garden where they manage to jump the fence. Recently they have not managed to get out so much as she has 'extended' the fence on her side of the property with bits of plywood and trellis etc. However last Thursday one of the 'Staffys' jumped over the 6ft fence dividing our back gardens and got into our back garden. A friend of ours was doing work on our house and our dog was in the garden, but luckily he got him in and she came round and collected her dog and took it back. Obviously this was a huge concern for us as we really don't like the 2 'Staffys.' My wife witnessed them tear a cat apart that went into her back garden and the owner herself has also been attacked by them previously.


Fast-forward to lastnight and my wife goes round to speak to her about how the dog got over the fence. Apparently there is a large concrete bench on her side that the 'Staffy' got onto and then jumped over. It was at this point that our neighbour admitted she was worried also, as her 'certificate' states that if the dog escapes then it will be put down. To me that can only mean one thing, that it's a Pit Bull Terrier. Not long after we moved in we did see the police take at least one of the dogs away and my neighbour has mentioned before that they had been 'tested.' We assumed that they had been identified as a breed that isn't banned in the UK and thought no more of it.


What options do we have here? The dogs never get walked and the owner did spend some time in a psychiatric unit about 12 months ago. To me she isn't mentally fit to own a dog of this nature. I also believe the property is Housing Association so surely they would have something to say about this? We don't want to fall out with our neighbour as it will make things awkward, but she is genuinely oblivious to the potential timebomb that she has running around (and escaping from) her garden.


For us it's probably a case of the dog goes or we go, we are looking to start a family and we would never feel safe raising a family with an unsecured banned dog living next door.


Many thanks for any advice anyone can give.


Cheers,


Mark

Mojisola

mckln335 wrote: »

It was at this point that our neighbour admitted she was worried also, as her 'certificate' states that if the dog escapes then it will be put down.

she is genuinely oblivious to the potential timebomb that she has running around (and escaping from) her garden.

She obviously isn't oblivious - just isn't doing anything to remedy the situation.

What is this 'certificate'? Have you spoken to the police or the dog warden or the RSPCA?

mckln335

I can only assume that it's a 'Certificate of Exemption' that is given to owners of banned breeds that are deemed acceptable to keep as pets provided the owner satisfies certain conditions (which she isn't).


I did speak to Council/RSPCA/Police yesterday about the animal jumping the fence, they did give me some useful advice but this was before I realised it was a potentially banned breed. I thought I would post here to see what my options are first. She said to my wife that she would ask her son-in-law to help me 'extend' the fence on the weekend, which to be honest isn't an acceptable solution for me.


I would prefer any course of action to be done anonymously if possible as I'm not sure how she will react to us being the reason that her dog(s) is/are taken away from her.


Cheers,


Mark

Pewmouse

If the dogs are not being cared for properly please contact the RSPCA, it is in the dog's best interest and also the owners if she is not coping.


I do think you are believing in the hype about certain breeds of dogs which may be skewing your perspective. I doubt you would be so bothered if they were Labradors. You should take the useful advise you were given yesterday rather than making a fuss about the dogs breeding, if you do and you are wrong, you could potentially hand those dogs a death sentence and your neighbour would be heart broken.

spadoosh

I like to take responsibility for myself. I dont like doing it for others.

In your situation i wouldnt want to be taking a dog away from its owner. I would be wanting to protect me and my family.

The best way to do that in a way you can control is to secure your boundary. By far the most amicable solution and abstains your from responsibility.

Lets say you get the dog killed or removed from the owner. The ownber buys another dog that isnt a dangerous breed. That dog is equally as capable of dealing the same amount of damage. What have you achieved? A very upset neighbour witha different breed of dog that can do the same as the previous dog. So nothing really. She doesnt replace the dog, achievement a peed off neighbour.

Just sort your own problems out. Your problem is a dog entering your property. The solution is to stop the dog entering your property. The best way of doing that is securing your boundary.

teddysmum

I recall from some time ago, that you are responsible for keeping dogs out of your remises rather than the owner having this responsibility. However the later is responsible for keeping the animal in control.


I doubt the RSPCA will do anything, as long as the dogs are fed,watered and have shelter. Having a walk out does not seem to count, as a neighbour was reported for keeping their dog tied to a coal bunker, before the garden was enclosed. They explained that the dog had to be outside as the younger child had developed a sudden allergy to dogs (dog was rehomed).


The neighbour was quite indignant that someone (not us) had reported them, but the inspector said the dog was fine as he had food, water, shelter suitable for his size (it was summer) and excrement was cleaned up.

Katiehound

In this situation I think I would be putting up chicken wire above the existing fence. If the existing fence has a solid top then the dog can get a purchase on that to get over, and can also see the height of the barrier.

I had a dog that used to whip over a waist high fence (he wasn't nasty just had the wanderlust!)- addition of 3ft extra height of chicken wire meant never again.

elsien

Pewmouse wrote: »

If the dogs are not being cared for properly please contact the RSPCA, it is in the dog's best interest and also the owners if she is not coping.
.

In this case, that'd probably be signing their death warrant as you can't sell or give away banned breeds.

OP: the exemption certificate means that the dogs are not considered to be a danger to public safety if certain conditions are met. Such as not allowing it to escape.
In your place, I would firstly double check with the neighbour (or dog warden if she's being unhelpful) whether or not the dogs are indeed pitbull types. I can understand your reservations. I have always had bull terriers but living next door to an unsecured pitbull type would initially give me second thoughts as well.

However:

I know many dogs that would rip small furry animals to shreds given half a chance, and none of them are banned breeds. Some dogs have strong prey drives and killing cats or squirrels does not automatically make them a danger to people. They are not considered to be potential time bombs, or they wouldn't have been returned to her. The rules were put in place as much as a sop to public opinion as anything else.

There was a TV programme a while ago which had a staffie stray being trained to be a police sniffer dog. Lovely animal without an ounce of aggression in it. Turned out to be a "pitbull type" (which in itself is a not a very scientific definition as there isn't a DNA test, they go on head measurements) and was put down. Complete waste of an innocent animal whose head was just the wrong side of the defining sizes.

In your situation I would be speaking to the neighbour and make it very clear what her obligations are (once clarified) and your concerns that these are not being met. She has to make sure that the dogs can't get out. Maybe spell out to her again the consequences if it gets into the street and is picked up/reported, that her dog could be taken off her and put down. Remind her that also included other peeople's gardens. That she needs to move anything that they can use to vault over the fence, and make sure that the fence is high enough and strong enough.
The fact that someone had MH issues 12 months ago does not by default make them an unfit person - that is stigmatising them without being in possession of the relevant facts. She could have been depressed, gone in for a short period as a voluntary patient and is now fully recovered, for example.
Another option (which is far cheaper than moving) is to put up your own sturdy fence on your side of the boundary.

I get that you're worried and why - there are many people who wouldn't want legal breeds escaping into their garden, let alone those with a reputation. But try not to let the hysteria over pitbull type dogs cause you to overreact.
Talk to the woman. Tell her how you feel. It's her responsibility to sort it properly. If she doesn't, then consider if you still wish to report her.

krlyr

Have to agree with Elsien on pushing this firmly back to the owner to control the dogs, 'or else'. I think the threat of taking it further needs to be there from the sounds of it, as the escapes so far have shown she's not quite taking it too seriously.

Is the fence on the boundary yours? Perhaps you could work with her to make it more secure - I have two big dogs, one of which used to climb over 6' fencing. I moved to a house where half of the neighbour's fence was only 4' - a nightmare, and although I made sure all garden trips were supervised, I do have to admit they jumped over it after a squirrel once (no aggression to humans so neighbours wouldn't have been in danger, but I do realise it was totally wrong and after that they only went in the garden on-lead until the fence was sorted). The neighbour kindly agreed we would be OK to attach some fence screening to our side of his fence, even gave me the hooks to do it, which was a great temporary, fairly low-cost solution. Although the screening wasn't as solid as a fence, my dogs showed absolutely no interest in jumping over it or climbing up it.

Of course, you have no obligation, and the owner has the responsibility to keep her dogs under control. Even without the exemption for having a type dog (if that's the case), they may be falling foul of the DDA, especially if they've shown some human aggression towards her (I do have to agree that small-furry aggression is a completely different - and fairly common - issue in dogs, my two are very prey driven but absolute softies with my brother's kids). But as others have said, the outcome for an exempted dog really isn't going to be great, the dog lover in me would have to say give her one last warning/chance to make the necessary changes.


As Elsien said (and this may help ease your mind given the subject of the post), an exempted dog is not necessarily a dangerous dog. In fact, given how strict they are on the testing of seized dogs (I've witnessed it myself through work, they really do push the dog's temperament in their assessments), they're almost in a way going to be a safer dog than an unknown, untested dog! There is no such thing as a Pitbull breed in the UK, it is just the 'type' that is banned, so basically a dog that has X length legs, a Y width head, etc. - there was a TV show a couple of years back where a Labrador was seized and tested as it met all the criteria!

surveyqueenuk

mckln335 wrote: »

For us it's probably a case of the dog goes or we go, we are looking to start a family and we would never feel safe raising a family with an unsecured banned dog living next door.

Your right to procreate does not trump her right to have dogs. When you sign that dog's death warrant, it's likely she'll just get another dog, as a PP said. You'll be back to square one (OK, it might not be a PB but it'll get in your garden, it'll bark loudly or something) and all for the sake of a fence. It's obvious you won't be happy until that dog is dead, else why would you refuse the offer of help with the fence?

krlyr

surveyqueenuk wrote: »

Your right to procreate does not trump her right to have dogs. When you sign that dog's death warrant, it's likely she'll just get another dog, as a PP said. You'll be back to square one (OK, it might not be a PB but it'll get in your garden, it'll bark loudly or something) and all for the sake of a fence. It's obvious you won't be happy until that dog is dead, else why would you refuse the offer of help with the fence?

Her right to have dogs does not trump their right to not have a stranger's dog in their garden though. As a dog owner, she is legally required to keep it under control - this does not mean allowing it to trespass into neighbouring property (young children or not), especially if it has a control order on it.

And I say that as owner of a GSD and a Rottie x, no prejudice against PB/'type' breeds at all.