The Edcawber Principle

edinburgher

£0.39 paid off CC, closed another CC, only 5? to go :rotfl:

Tjh1412

ongratulations on closing the CC, you'll soon get rid of the rest I'm sure

edinburgher

Quiet day with DD - went to M&S and got a couple of very nice bottles of wine using vouchers we'd earned from a CC and a Christmas gift.

Positive weigh in this morning - have lost 2.2lbs since scaring the crap out of myself when I replaced the batteries in our bathroom scales Gym tomorrow morning, although calf muscles a little sore.

Forgot that utility bill was lower than usual this month - another £63.50 paid off the CC.

Now for a :beer:

Goldiegirl

Well done on the weight loss. My weigh in day is the last Saturday of each month, so I'd be delighted if I can report a 2.2 lb loss next week

edinburgher

So it only took 3 months, but I have totally lost my joie de credit card repayment (and my enthusiasm in general)

I am feeling like a total ninny - thought I had this money thing largely down - but have made a raft of stupid mistakes. Noting this down to shame myself for posterity and because I'm finding it hard to live without regret.

• Being entitled and snobby and feeling like our financial life has ground into reverse because we're in the 'right area', at the cost of £172k of outstanding mortgage and a house that I hate just a little bit
• Mortgage at stupidly high rate of 3.6% until 2020 because we wanted to free up money for home improvements that we spent in part on....
• Not living within our means! I'll go back to that entitled comment. It is difficult to be the 'poor guys' when every social event we're invited to revolves around expensive trips to bars and restaurants. Yes, I realise how stupid that sounds
• Exploring every stupid avenue to make money including: gambling (back in the day I must have !!!!ed £2k of my MB winnings up a wall),(unsustainable P2P (bye bye £1200) and cryptocurrency (thankfully I realised almost instantly that I couldn't catch a falling knife, bye bye £200)
• Burning through savings at a rate of knots with the sinking feeling in my stomach that we're !!!!ed once they're gone as we don't seem to stick to a budget (even when I swear to goodness think I've accounted for *every penny* for 3+ months and we'll still have something like £20k to repay!
• Feeling shame that I don't earn enough to provide my family with the lifestyles that I see friends and peers enjoying, despite earning a wage that I would have killed for 15 years ago!

Rant over. I feel like I belong on DFW more than MFW these days :eek:

Karmacat

Ed! Oh b****ggr you've been sitting on a lot, haven't you

Okay, you've said it now, it's out in the open. And one of the things that concerns me most of all is that you hate the house a little bit? What's that about? Area, house itself? You might have said at the time, I might remember some ambivalence, but I'm not sure.
ETA - maybe its now about these financial issues? Don't know ...

Where has the entitled feeling come from? Is it from moving into this "right area" where social lives revolve around spending money and you're the poor people? Your age group gets slammed, constantly, for that, which is ridiculous, but if it infects you, so to speak, from the media etc, it can be hard to resist.

Burning through savings and not stopping - it won't **** you over forever, but it will definitely put a dent in your plans. Is Mrs E going through the same stuff, is she in agreement about the need for change?

Is there an issue you need to look at emotionally? Gambling to pay off debts ... okay, you know it now, what a cul de sac that is, but how come you're falling into cul de sac after cul de sac?

One diary that might help a lot is earthgirl's ... she has two children, older than your DD, and she works really hard to do stuff and do it as cheaply as possible. I can absolutely understand joining in with the social life around you, but learning to do it on your terms would be really beneficial.

Sorry you're feeling so bad, Ed, but there will be a way through. Your post is the start of it. Do you need to do an SOA?

HTH.

hiddenshadow

edinburgher wrote: »

• Being entitled and snobby and feeling like our financial life has ground into reverse because we're in the 'right area', at the cost of £172k of outstanding mortgage and a house that I hate just a little bit

This sounds fixable (eventually), either by tweaking the things you don't like, or by cashing in on equity and moving to a place that you don't hate at all. Not fabulous in the meantime, granted, but hopefully it helps to think that you're not stuck there forever and ever.

• Not living within our means! I'll go back to that entitled comment. It is difficult to be the 'poor guys' when every social event we're invited to revolves around expensive trips to bars and restaurants. Yes, I realise how stupid that sounds

I don't have any advice here except to say I've been there. Eventually I got to the point financially where there was no way that I could (in good conscience) keep up that lifestyle, so I quit. FWIW, I've felt so much better when I can agree to things on my terms (e.g. "budget says I can afford to do x now", not "friend, I declare we shall only do hobby x instead of thing y because I am a jerk").

There's also the standard line of "suggest cheap things for your friends to do with you"...if they genuinely just want to spend time with you, they should be happy to do a dinner party at home with a nice bottle of wine, for far less than a bar/restaurant. Likewise re: expensive activities/etc, friends should be open to exploring other things to do. (If you have no interest in any of that, ignore me.)

• Burning through savings at a rate of knots with the sinking feeling in my stomach that we're !!!!ed once they're gone as we don't seem to stick to a budget (even when I swear to goodness think I've accounted for *every penny* for 3+ months and we'll still have something like £20k to repay!

Just curious, but is your budget primarily backward looking? e.g. we spent £100/mo on average for heating over the last year, therefore we will plug in £100 indefinitely for heating?

I used to budget that way, and it works ok if all the numbers match up to historical amounts, and/or you can perfectly predict what you will need for future. Now I budget via zero-based envelope system, which actively encourages you to (as the software says) "roll with the punches", and absorb/take charge of any unexpected expenses in the current month, not just throw them on a CC and hope you can pay it off later. (Not saying you've done that, just that it's the general person's mindset.) As it all works off the money you already have on hand, and not the money you plan to make next month/year/etc, it's a lot harder to put stuff on a CC because you're meant to plan for paying expenses with the funds on hand, and it also forces you to decide if that last £1 goes into groceries/heating/other essential thing, or if it goes into random-stupid-thing-I-really-shouldn't-buy.

All that rambling to say, it is possible to make a budget work, but the "traditional" budget system can have a lot of failings.

• Feeling shame that I don't earn enough to provide my family with the lifestyles that I see friends and peers enjoying, despite earning a wage that I would have killed for 15 years ago!

Did you even know Mrs E 15 years ago? You definitely didn't have DD. So judging yourself by what you would have dreamed an impossibly huge sum half a lifetime ago seems a bit harsh. Also:
- what could have worked 15 years ago may not work now (inflation, currency exchange, COL in general, house prices, interest rates, etc.)
- your friends/peers may be in the "throw everything on a CC and pretend it's not there" mindset, so you probably don't have a full picture of their finances. They may be in much worse shape than you!

Hope that helps a bit...having been through a similar "oh crap, what am I doing with my financial life" crisis, I know it's tough.

Greying_Pilgrim

Ed - I've just read you post and I feel for you - I really do, I'm not taking the ****, I genuinely feel for you. I thought Karma and hiddenshadow's posts excellent.

I'm older than you, and have been through similar feelings of 'not keeping up' and 'everyone's life is so much more interesting than mine, and how do they afford it?' - and all this way waaay before Baby Greying arrived.

The one advantage, and it is possibly the only one.... of being older, is that you definitely get to see what is important. And do you know what is important about what you wrote Ed? it's that you know what you've done/not done. How many of your peers could have done the same analysis? All of them? Some of them? None of them? OK, so you know where you've made 'mistakes' (your word - Richard Branson wouldn't use it) trying to make money. You say mistakes, and outline, some pieces of cash that you may not see again. OK, but then you would either do MB/P2P or cryptocurrency differently in the future, or not touch it with a bargepole and pat yourself on the back that you got out when you did.......................

hiddenshadow is right, true friends will do activities 'wherever', 'whenever' and 'however'. Speaking personally, our activities are now dominated, not by being seen to be in all the 'right' places, or trying out the swankiest joints, it's about making memories, for us, for BG and with BG.

Nothing else matters.

It really doesn't. And do you know, I thought a little while ago that I had 'lost' some of the friends that were in my life prior to BG's unexpected arrival. It hurt and I didn't know what I had 'done wrong'. But funnily enough, they have started to return to our lives, they understand the constraints that a little person brings along, but they've embraced visiting us at home, or inviting us to lunch - at their home - so that we're not out late past BG's bed time but can enjoy quality time together. I've been told all about someone called 'Martin Lewis' :money: and how to moneysave......... By someone that has always earnt way more than me, and is set up financially for life.......... Why? Well, I think because times are changing, and people are seeking meaning over consumption, and fulfillment over fun. And as an 'older person', I'd say that the nights out in swanky bars and restaurants don't matter. The fact that you will be able to tell your grandchildren that 'you were there' when Scotland famously thrashed the English in 2018, at Murrayfield, and lifted the Calcutta cup........ well, that's investing in a life well-lived isn't it? And making memories

So Ed, it's January, it's gloomy, and you've realised that somethings haven't worked. Cut yourself some slack. Stop. Think and regroup. Debt-repayment isn't glamorous, it's habit and it's a slog. But it's worth it. You're ahead of the curve where you are right now, because of your financial knowledge and understanding, and because of your self-knowledge.

When you're ready Ed get back on the horse, and bash the debt. Not yourself.

We're all here rooting for you and for the win

Greying X

edinburgher

You're a lovely bunch - I think Greying has hit the nail on the head and I'm just getting Blue Monday a bit later than everyone else

Numbers added because I'd get confused otherwise.

Karmacat wrote: »

1. Okay, you've said it now, it's out in the open. And one of the things that concerns me most of all is that you hate the house a little bit? What's that about? Area, house itself? You might have said at the time, I might remember some ambivalence, but I'm not sure.
2. Where has the entitled feeling come from? Is it from moving into this "right area" where social lives revolve around spending money and you're the poor people? Your age group gets slammed, constantly, for that, which is ridiculous, but if it infects you, so to speak, from the media etc, it can be hard to resist.
3. Is Mrs E going through the same stuff, is she in agreement about the need for change?
4. Is there an issue you need to look at emotionally? Gambling to pay off debts ... okay, you know it now, what a cul de sac that is, but how come you're falling into cul de sac after cul de sac?
5. Do you need to do an SOA?

Honest answers!

1. It's a !!!!!! shoebox in a boring suburb where we've spent £40k and it's still not finished!
2. Unrealistic expectations? I grew up assuming that a white collar salary would provide a 'middle class' lifestyle. It's just that everybody is either dirt poor, middle class or a millionaire these days, so there's more of a spectrum than I saw growing up!
3. Mrs E doesn't have much of an interest in finances beyond broad themes. She knows that we have debts that I'm working to pay off and she has (reluctantly) gone along with minimal cuts to our lifestyle
4. Impatience? My inability to accept that large parts of adult life are boring as !!!! and filled with things I hate?
5. I honestly don't know. I have a full budget, 3+ years of spending data and I'm trying really hard to actually save the money I need to. But somehow it slips away... no idea what I'm doing wrong

hiddenshadow wrote: »

1. This sounds fixable (eventually), either by tweaking the things you don't like, or by cashing in on equity and moving to a place that you don't hate at all. Not fabulous in the meantime, granted, but hopefully it helps to think that you're not stuck there forever and ever.
2. I don't have any advice here except to say I've been there. Eventually I got to the point financially where there was no way that I could (in good conscience) keep up that lifestyle, so I quit. FWIW, I've felt so much better when I can agree to things on my terms (e.g. "budget says I can afford to do x now", not "friend, I declare we shall only do hobby x instead of thing y because I am a jerk").
3. There's also the standard line of "suggest cheap things for your friends to do with you"...if they genuinely just want to spend time with you, they should be happy to do a dinner party at home with a nice bottle of wine, for far less than a bar/restaurant. Likewise re: expensive activities/etc, friends should be open to exploring other things to do. (If you have no interest in any of that, ignore me.)
4. Just curious, but is your budget primarily backward looking? e.g. we spent £100/mo on average for heating over the last year, therefore we will plug in £100 indefinitely for heating?
5. I used to budget that way, and it works ok if all the numbers match up to historical amounts, and/or you can perfectly predict what you will need for future. Now I budget via zero-based envelope system, which actively encourages you to (as the software says) "roll with the punches", and absorb/take charge of any unexpected expenses in the current month, not just throw them on a CC and hope you can pay it off later.
6. Did you even know Mrs E 15 years ago? You definitely didn't have DD. So judging yourself by what you would have dreamed an impossibly huge sum half a lifetime ago seems a bit harsh.
7. your friends/peers may be in the "throw everything on a CC and pretend it's not there" mindset, so you probably don't have a full picture of their finances. They may be in much worse shape than you!

Lots to think about there HS

1. I feel a bit stuck because I have a snobby fear that if we're not in an area with decent schools, DD will automatically become a crack smoking hellion I think we could potentially move in 2020, but we'd need to tart up the kitchen and fix the garage roof. I don't really like houses vs. flats
2. I have no qualms with saying "I'm skint", but Mrs E always wants to avoid it, coming up with daft rotating excuses when we miss something
3. With our main group of friends, Mrs E and I are somewhat on the periphery, if that makes sense? She is best friends with the "Queen Bee", but the rest of the group are mostly Bee's old uni friends, their partners etc. Everyone else seems happy with the status quo and we don't really feel close enough to the centre to start a radical potluck movement :rotfl:
4 and 5. Yes, our budget draws on historical data, but I try and add in flexibility for things to change. I think part of the issue is that there isn't a 'cap' on certain lines in the budget, so I'm probably not very creative at cutting back. I try and balance things month to month, but then you end up short further down the line. Example - put various grocery items through as home maintenance - I can guarantee that home maintenance will be short next month! :mad:
6. I accept that I can't predict the future!
7. There may be an element of that, but I'm not convinced. Seriously, at least 50% of our friends are junior vice presidents and highly paid nonsense like that:eek:

Greying_Pilgrim wrote: »

Ed1. I've just read you post and I feel for you - I really do, I'm not taking the ****, I genuinely feel for you. I thought Karma and hiddenshadow's posts excellent.
2. I'm older than you, and have been through similar feelings of 'not keeping up' and 'everyone's life is so much more interesting than mine, and how do they afford it?' - and all this way waaay before Baby Greying arrived.
3. The one advantage, and it is possibly the only one.... of being older, is that you definitely get to see what is important. And do you know what is important about what you wrote Ed? it's that you know what you've done/not done.
4. And do you know, I thought a little while ago that I had 'lost' some of the friends that were in my life prior to BG's unexpected arrival. It hurt and I didn't know what I had 'done wrong'.
5. The fact that you will be able to tell your grandchildren that 'you were there' when Scotland famously thrashed the English in 2018, at Murrayfield, and lifted the Calcutta cup........ well, that's investing in a life well-lived isn't it? And making memories

1. Yeah - they were really motivational
2. How did you get over it? Time?
3. But I beat myself up as I don't have a time machine!
4. It sounds like Mrs E and I don't really have "true friends" by that measure and that hurts a little. We have, however, realised that the balance was wrong on that front and are working to resolve it. But it is so much harder to make friends when you're an adult, eh?
5. If I hadn't paid for that ticket with cash savings, I'd be even more embarrassed by my spending right now :rotfl:

Thanks Greying, appreciated.

edinburgher

Revisiting my budget, debt repayment isn't included (so £300/month or so of minimum repayments). That probably isn't helping me balance the books.