Parking Notice received - I paid my fee

pddt1975

Hi, can someone help. I parked in an ANPR car park.

Pulled into the car park, found a space, went to put my money into the machine (£2.50 fee) and it wouldn't take new £1 coins. I asked a few other people but no joy so was told to run across to the shop opposite which I did.

I went back to the car park, after 5 minutes and paid my fee. I was allowed to park for 2 hours - 10:08am to 12:08. I came out of the car park 3 minutes before the end of my ticket, namely 12:05.

They are saying that because I went into the car park at 10:05 but didn't pay until 10:08am then I should pay a fine. they have had their £2.50 and I parked for less time that they charged me.

I have written to them, they said tough I have to pay, they then said I should appeal to POPLA which I was told not to do as it then means I am agreeing to their debt being due and payable, which I don't.

I now have a letter from DRP debt collection telling me that I could be taken to court. Surely I have a good chance of winning if I paid my ticket, have sent them a copy, and still have the ticket?

Redx

if you did not appeal to popla (which you should have done at the time) then you are in IGNORE mode unless you receive either an LBC or an MCOL in the post within 6 years

you will then have to defend yourself and show they are being unreasonable etc

grace periods also apply , so possibly up to 10 minutes grace at the start of the parking period, see clause #13 of the BPA CoP

IGNORE DRP

which PPC is it ?

ps:- stick some paragraphs in post #1 so its easier to read

Loadsofchildren123

Read CPR rule 15.10
Write to them and quote it and say you will defend any proceedings on the basis you paid and quote that rule.
The lack of change was entirely reasonable and foreseeable given that the old £1 coins are no longer legal tender (although were they at the time of the parking? When was it? They have been phasing out the old ones for ages). You paid within 3 minutes of parking so that should come under grace periods as well which should be allowed under the BPA CoP.

I know we advise to ignore. However, I think the earlier you tell them they have no case to answer you should put yourself in the best position you can to recover costs for their unreasonable behaviour (known as R27.14(2)(g) costs). You do that by making it clear from the start that you have a good defence. I’d them send the same letter every time you hear from them.

Redx

good point , its also why I asked who the PPC was too

dont bother arguing with DRP, they cannot cancel it , and wont anyway as they would not get their pound of flesh

Loadsofchildren123

In this case as its been paid I would still send this letter, both to whichever debt collectors write to you and direct to the PPC. This way you set yourself up for getting costs if this ends up in court. Don't reply with anything other than that you have paid, they have no claim, please stop processing and retaining your data, and quoting this rule. You could also tell them that they are committing a criminal fence under Section 1 of the Protection from Harassment Act and instruct them to cease writing to you immediately. Keep a record of how many times you send it so that you can refer to the letters later and recover postage costs.
You also set yourself up nicely for a counterclaim by doing this.
The debt collectors are the PPC's agents so the PPC is as liable as they are for their actions.

pddt1975

Thank you for your help.
I will send a letter as you suggest. I have already sent letters, attaching copy of the ticket I paid for etc. but they have not taken any notice. I will now quote CPR Rule 15.10 as suggested and also the fact that I have paid, they have no claim etc.
Again, thanks for your help.

Will let you all know how I get on.

Also, new £1 coins had been phased in 3-4 months prior

Loadsofchildren123

They won't take any notice of this letter either.

If/when you eventually get a court claim, if it's a baseless/weak claim and if court rules have been flouted, then at the end you can ask for an "unreasonable behaviour" costs order under Rule 27.14(2)(g). The normal rule in small claims is that you don't get costs and it's hard to get a costs order like this. Most judges say no, but occasionally people succeed (a poster caled Sassii just got £1,500, but usually it's £2-400).

I think if you write every time to repeat that you paid and therefore there is no valid claim, you strengthen an eventual costs application (and counterclaim). That's the only real reason for writing the letter.

Make sure you keep copies of all of them (and if you have time, get a free certificate of postage from the post office counter - it's not recorded delivery, that's not necessary, just proof it was posted and there is no fee).

It might assist as well if you start keeping a record of the time you are spending on this case. Don't bother with time spent on this forum, but time spent reading and writing letters, reading the court rules, reading cases and reading/preparing/amending documents, compiling your own bundles of documents, copying etc, site visits, and any money you spend (postage, petrol, printing/copying charges etc). When the time comes (if it comes) you will then find it easy to make a schedule of your costs. Sassii followed a precedent I put on her thread, it's worth subscribing to her thread now because by the time you get to this stage you may find it difficult to find. The version she posted was unformatted but followed the precedent I'd given her. She managed to get a very good costs order as a result.

pddt1975

Thank you.

Premier Parking Limited are the company who are chasing me for the 3 minutes they believe I had extra???

The_Deep

Do as LOC says, keep writng to them and built a paper trail.


When I had a dispute with Orange they wanted to discuss the matter on the 'phone, while I insisted on letters, I sent them 7 letters, to none of which did they reply. I complained to the ombudsman who criticised them and awarded me compo.

Loadsofchildren123

Also in your eventual defence, rely on the doctrine de minimis non curat lex (the law does not concern itself with trifles) - the 3 minutes is a trifling breach that the court should not be troubled with (and in any event comes within permitted grace periods).

The_Deep

Surely that argument can be used in a lot of claims. I am aware of PE taking someone to court for an underpayment of 10p where a coin has been rejected.

Also, are not fluttering tickets, typos in VRNs and parking a few inches over a white line trifles.