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MSE News: Cheque clearing to be cut to 'next working day'

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  • aj23_2
    aj23_2 Posts: 1,155 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    IanManc wrote: »
    Saying how much older you are doesn't give you any rank or authority over another poster, and no one needs to justify to the likes of you how they run their finances.

    Yes, IanManc. Quite right. I thought it was older people who were cheque-philes but apparently not! Lol. :T
  • takman
    takman Posts: 3,876 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    aj23 wrote: »
    You can't refund via Contactless on card, you misconstrued what I said. I know you can't, a friend of mine was double charged and she had to ring up head office at Topshop for them to refund via BACS payment.

    Paying by phone is contactless and you can definitely get a refund using contactless. It seems this was an issue with Topshop specifically.
    aj23 wrote: »
    Just because you haven't lost or had a card stolen, doesn't mean you wouldn't ever. I had my wallet stolen in Spain and it left me without being able to do anything about it for 2 days.

    If that did happen then i could ring my bank immediately because i don't get charged for using my phone in Spain (another benefit of technology).
    aj23 wrote: »
    I'm not stuck in the past, I don't know why you're getting personal. I use the methods that companies and banks make available to me, just like you. You might, and I say might, because a lot of online vs branch accounts are actually the same (Virgin Money e.g.), be getting marginal higher interest but only 0.1% or 0.2%. Wow, big deal in this climate, a few pennies.

    I have switched twice. I register, but don't use, the online banking. So no, I'm not missing out. I have 2 current accounts, paying 3% and 5% (two of the best), two regular savers paying 2% and 2.3% (depositing the max each month) and a Help to Buy Isa which has been paying me 4% since April 2016 on max. monthly deposits and received money for switching bank accounts (you can do CASS in branch by the way, so you wouldn't miss out of interest CAs), so I think I'm actually doing better than most and what you're assuming or giving me credit for. I couldn't actually be getting more on those 5 accounts even if I tried because they are always at the max for receiving the interest for C/A and max monthly contributions for the Saving accounts. And that's not including the 10% growth year on year on my pension.

    So how many hours of your life are you wasting by having to go into multiple branches to open accounts and manage them?.
    aj23 wrote: »
    I don't bank with anyone who is closing branches as it happens, one of them is actually open 9 this year, because their customers want more branch/face to face contact, the opposite of your opinion.

    Using cheques doesn't cost me anything. Going into a branch is free, Post Office is free, freepost envelopes are, well, free. Giving to a friend in their hand is free. The chequebook is free. I don't pay for energy bills, so again I'm not missing out there. No effect on me what so ever, I'm not paying any fees or charges and I don't find it difficult to bank at all. It costs the bank to pay the interest, send statements and produced chequebooks. Everything works perfectly for me, so why you care so much I just don't know.

    Well you have the cost of sending Cheques in the post, the cost of travelling to the bank and the cost of all the time you have to spend doing everything in branches.
    aj23 wrote: »
    You're extremely misinformed as everything you've assumed is wrong. You've assumed I don't have a direct debit by the way, I never said I do or don't. By using MSE, I am better off than 2 years, by a lot, due to the accounts I have and how I make them pay me, as every account of mine does. I couldn't care less how you do your banking, so why you care so incredibly about people using cheques because they like and want to is completely beyond me. Online banking often doesn't work and there's maintenance, so if you're happy with that then great. As if you'd refuse a cheque if someone gave you a sum even as little of £5,000 or as much as £5,000,000. You'd be straight down your bank to cash it. The difference here is that I don't like the methods you use and I don't use them, but I'm not telling not to use them, it's your choice. You don't like my method, but you are trying to get me not to use cheques and that's wrong. The more you tell someone not to do something, the more society does it. I think we are done here with you being educated and proved wrong about your assumptions. I won't be checking back for more ill-informed posts. Happy banking! :beer:

    Well i'm not telling you to change your methods i'm just stating how they are flawed. If you worried about fraud then if that did happen you wouldn't know about it until you next visited a branch.

    I havn't seen anywhere where you have justified the hours and hours you have wasted by managing your fiances in branches compared to doing it online.
  • EarthBoy
    EarthBoy Posts: 3,096 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    aj23 wrote: »
    You can't refund via Contactless on card, you misconstrued what I said. I know you can't, a friend of mine was double charged and she had to ring up head office at Topshop for them to refund via BACS payment.

    You clearly don't know as much as you think you know. You CAN be refunded by conctactless card because I've had refunds that way myself. Just because Topshop can't do it, it doesn't mean that other shops can't.
  • noh
    noh Posts: 5,808 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    IanManc wrote: »
    Saying how much older you are doesn't give you any rank or authority over another poster, and no one needs to justify to the likes of you how they run their finances.

    I stated my age because aj23 had stated his as 25 in post #11 not to claim any "rank or authority" over any other poster.

    I am not asking anyone to justify how they run their finances.
    The facts are that cheque use is declining significantly year on year.
    I and evidently an increasing number of others very rarely use cheques.

    I have used internet banking since 1998 and subsequently use the internet for all my financial accounts (savings, credit cards share dealing, P2P investment etc)
    In the last 19 years I am, at a guess, many tens of thousands better off for having done so.
  • noh
    noh Posts: 5,808 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    aj23 wrote: »
    Yes, IanManc. Quite right. I thought it was older people who were cheque-philes but apparently not! Lol. :T

    That is why I stated my age. You stated yours in post #11
    It is not older people who are cheque-philes it is more likely to be technophobes of any age.
  • aj23_2
    aj23_2 Posts: 1,155 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    takman wrote: »
    Paying by phone is contactless and you can definitely get a refund using contactless. It seems this was an issue with Topshop specifically.



    If that did happen then i could ring my bank immediately because i don't get charged for using my phone in Spain (another benefit of technology).



    So how many hours of your life are you wasting by having to go into multiple branches to open accounts and manage them?.



    Well you have the cost of sending Cheques in the post, the cost of travelling to the bank and the cost of all the time you have to spend doing everything in branches.



    Well i'm not telling you to change your methods i'm just stating how they are flawed. If you worried about fraud then if that did happen you wouldn't know about it until you next visited a branch.

    I havn't seen anywhere where you have justified the hours and hours you have wasted by managing your fiances in branches compared to doing it online.

    I wasn't referring to Mobile Pay (unsurprisingly I don't use it because of the security issues), I was referring to Contactless Cards.

    If you lose the card abroad, how would you see the number on the back of the stolen card? No one gets charged in the EU now, so that's a moot point.

    How many hours have you 'wasted' by logging onto Online banking everyday, or checking your apps? A lot more than me because I don't do it. I go into town to do other things, so it doesn't impact me to go into a bank for 30 or 60 seconds once or twice a month after buying a book in Waterstones, deodorant in Boots and a card in Clintons. You're over-estimating how much time I, and others, spend in branches. I walk into town, which is free. I pay bills at the counter, which doesn't require postage. You keep tripping yourself up in your attempts to display my alleged inconvenience on your part. I don't even have to go into a branch to open an account, I can complete an application form on the internet.

    You doing everything online will ultimately make everyone who works in banks, hundreds of thousands of people, unemployed, and then your taxes will increase to pay their benefits because there's no other position for them to use their skill set in. It's already happening with robots making cars etc.

    I've told you that your methods are flawed. Getting locked out of accounts, internet hacking (which can't happen to me as I don't do it), website down, power cuts, servicing and maintenance outages, but I don't really care because it's not me. You've told me and others not to do it how we want. I know I said wouldn't reply, but your intolerance is intolerable. You still can't answer why you are so bothered by cheques if you never handle them.

    I'm not trying to justify me using branches, because I don't need or want to. It doesn't bother me to use branches. They are there to be used, they are paid to be there to do a job, why should I do it? I don't even have to go in to banks to manage them. It keeps people employed, it's encourages social interaction and social skills. Living behind a screen doesn't do that. We all do it how we want, what is your problem with that? I don't have to worry about fraud because I don't use methods where I can be defrauded.

    I notice you have nothing to say about my interest rates and the accounts, maybe because it's disproved your points about 'missing out' and 'not having fun' or 'losing out on thousands'. As I said, they all pay me the maximum can they can pay. You presumed a lot and got it all wrong.

    I don't view how I manage my finances as flawed. You don't view how you manage your finances as flawed. That is why we do it how we do it. But I'm not telling you not to do it your way because frankly it's none of my business, take from that what you will :j
  • aj23_2
    aj23_2 Posts: 1,155 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    noh wrote: »
    I stated my age because aj23 had stated his as 25 in post #11 not to claim any "rank or authority" over any other poster.

    I am not asking anyone to justify how they run their finances.
    The facts are that cheque use is declining significantly year on year.
    I and evidently an increasing number of others very rarely use cheques.

    I have used internet banking since 1998 and subsequently use the internet for all my financial accounts (savings, credit cards share dealing, P2P investment etc)
    In the last 19 years I am, at a guess, many tens of thousands better off for having done so.

    That's fine, that doesn't bother me. It won't stop me using them or changing how I do things. 471 million cheques in 2016 worth £551,000,000,000. Do you realise how much that is? That's £51,000,000,000 more what the Government spends during the course of a Parliament on the NHS. It's still a massive amount of transactions and an gigantic sum of money. The poll on the homepage suggest that actually most people do them every year, no matter how little or large, often or not often, and lots of people still use them monthly. In those links you kindly supplied, it says that actually more individuals use cheques than businesses.

    I said to the guy what I'm saying to you: it doesn't cost me anything to do it how I want to. All my accounts pay me the max. interest, I pay no fees or charges for anything. I'm also a lot of better off in the last 2 years, and it hasn't cost me a penny to be so either. This thread has turned into a court case of sorts and I don't see why. It's like a cheque witch hunt.
  • takman
    takman Posts: 3,876 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    aj23 wrote: »
    I wasn't referring to Mobile Pay (unsurprisingly I don't use it because of the security issues), I was referring to Contactless Cards.

    Like i said Contactless Cards work the same way as Contactless payments on phones when it comes to refunds, a poster above has also confirmed this.

    What security issues are you referring to?
    aj23 wrote: »
    If you lose the card abroad, how would you see the number on the back of the stolen card? No one gets charged in the EU now, so that's a moot point.

    How many hours have you 'wasted' by logging onto Online banking everyday, or checking your apps? A lot more than me because I don't do it. I go into town to do other things, so it doesn't impact me to go into a bank for 30 or 60 seconds once or twice a month after buying a book in Waterstones, deodorant in Boots and a card in Clintons. You're over-estimating how much time I, and others, spend in branches. I walk into town, which is free. I pay bills at the counter, which doesn't require postage. You keep tripping yourself up in your attempts to display my alleged inconvenience on your part. I don't even have to go into a branch to open an account, I can complete an application form on the internet.

    Well you have to check all your account eventually to make sure interest has been applied as it should have, payments have been processed correctly etc. The easiest and most convenient way to do this is online as you can check your transactions and balances wherever you are and as often as little as you want.
    There is no way that going into a branch or reading paper statements could be faster than online banking.

    Also i find it odd how you complain about online security but your happy to fill out a form online and put all your personal details in it. You have to give far more personal information when applying for a bank online than you do to log into Online Banking.
    aj23 wrote: »
    You doing everything online will ultimately make everyone who works in banks, hundreds of thousands of people, unemployed, and then your taxes will increase to pay their benefits because there's no other position for them to use their skill set in. It's already happening with robots making cars etc.

    As technology progresses then some jobs are made obsolete and new jobs are created. We can't just stop progression because some people will loose their jobs.
    This is something that has always happened and will continue to happen. For example the computer/device you are using to post online has caused many hundreds of thousands of typewriters and admin people to loose their jobs, but you seem happy to continue to use it.
    aj23 wrote: »
    I've told you that your methods are flawed. Getting locked out of accounts, internet hacking (which can't happen to me as I don't do it), website down, power cuts, servicing and maintenance outages,
    but I don't really care because it's not me.

    Nobody has ever lost any money due to hacking and if the bank was actually hacked you would loose money because even if you don't use online banking your account is still on the same computer system as everyone else.

    Yes there are sometimes outages on online banking which may average out at a couple hours a month at most. But that is nothing compared to the fact you can only access banking services when the bank is open. So you effectively have a banking outage every night from about 5pm until 9am the next more and the majority of the weekend.
    aj23 wrote: »
    You've told me and others not to do it how we want. I know I said wouldn't reply, but your intolerance is intolerable. You still can't answer why you are so bothered by cheques if you never handle them.

    I'm not trying to justify me using branches, because I don't need or want to. It doesn't bother me to use branches. They are there to be used, they are paid to be there to do a job, why should I do it? I don't even have to go in to banks to manage them. It keeps people employed, it's encourages social interaction and social skills. Living behind a screen doesn't do that. We all do it how we want, what is your problem with that? I don't have to worry about fraud because I don't use methods where I can be defrauded.

    If anyone goes to the bank for social interaction then they really need to get out more. The whole point of mobile banking is that i can be out and about doing stuff while banking and not stuck in a bank branch.

    I have no idea of your personal situation but i work all week and at the weekend's i want to be out and about doing things i enjoy and certainly not going into town, i have only been into my local town once or twice this year.

    You also don't need to worry about fraud, the majority of fraud relies on the person falling for a scam and handing over the money. Plenty of fraud happens to people who also don't use online banking. If your smart enough to not get scammed now then it won't be any different with online banking.

    Nobody has ever lost money due to online banking fraud where it wasn't there fault.
    aj23 wrote: »
    I notice you have nothing to say about my interest rates and the accounts, maybe because it's disproved your points about 'missing out' and 'not having fun' or 'losing out on thousands'. As I said, they all pay me the maximum can they can pay. You presumed a lot and got it all wrong.

    I don't view how I manage my finances as flawed. You don't view how you manage your finances as flawed. That is why we do it how we do it. But I'm not telling you not to do it your way because frankly it's none of my business, take from that what you will :j

    Well it turned out your far less of a technophobe than you made out to be as your happy to apply for accounts online. But if you want me to comment on that then you can definitely improve you regular savers and instead of getting only 2% and 2.3% interest you could have 2 or more paying 5% interest. But if you won't go with online only banks or banks with no local branches then you may miss out on these. One of my regular savers i still have running pays 6% interest with First Direct which is online/telephone only.
    So you probably have the best you can get working with the limitations of only using branches but you can definitely do a lot better.

    I want to make it clear i'm not trying to force you to do anything i just want a good discussion/debate on the subject. You can rip apart how i bank as much as you want and point out all the flaws because an opposing view always makes a good discussion. But if you don't want to discuss it further then fair enough.
  • aj23_2
    aj23_2 Posts: 1,155 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    takman wrote: »
    To use your Chequebook someone needs to get hold of it, to use contactless on my card someone also needs to get hold of it so there is little difference in that respect.

    Contactless fraud is almost irrelevant because if it does happen the bank refund immediately without question. Also it's not as common as you think i don't know anyone who it has happened too.



    For you they may not be inconvenient, but for me they are because i do almost everything online so i very rarely go near a bank. I much prefer to spend my free time doing something more productive and/or enjoyable.



    All my friends and family send payments to each other on a regular basis using online banking and no-one has ever sent the payment to a wrong account. You simply double check the details the first time you send the money and then they are saved. Then any future payments take a few seconds, can be done on your mobile when your out and usually arrive immediately.

    Also i don't see the issue with sending people your bank details. They are written on every cheque and most bank card and can only be used to pay money into the account easily.



    In that persons case if they are happy to travel to the bank then making a transfer in the bank makes it easier for the recipient to receive the money. Plus i thought i would mention it because they were under the mistaken impression that bank transfer would cost them money.

    But....

    If everyone agreed that Cheques were a good payment method and were not inconvenient like you then they wouldn't be making changes to the system. If everyone thought like you then they wouldn't be introducing systems to allow you to pay them in with a picture and to allow them to clear the next working day.

    Once these changes are implemented Cheques will be far less inconvenient and i actually won't mind receiving the odd Cheque if i don't have to go into a branch to pay it in.
    takman wrote: »
    Like i said Contactless Cards work the same way as Contactless payments on phones when it comes to refunds, a poster above has also confirmed this.

    What security issues are you referring to?



    Well you have to check all your account eventually to make sure interest has been applied as it should have, payments have been processed correctly etc. The easiest and most convenient way to do this is online as you can check your transactions and balances wherever you are and as often as little as you want.
    There is no way that going into a branch or reading paper statements could be faster than online banking.

    Also i find it odd how you complain about online security but your happy to fill out a form online and put all your personal details in it. You have to give far more personal information when applying for a bank online than you do to log into Online Banking.



    As technology progresses then some jobs are made obsolete and new jobs are created. We can't just stop progression because some people will loose their jobs.
    This is something that has always happened and will continue to happen. For example the computer/device you are using to post online has caused many hundreds of thousands of typewriters and admin people to loose their jobs, but you seem happy to continue to use it.



    Nobody has ever lost any money due to hacking and if the bank was actually hacked you would loose money because even if you don't use online banking your account is still on the same computer system as everyone else.

    Yes there are sometimes outages on online banking which may average out at a couple hours a month at most. But that is nothing compared to the fact you can only access banking services when the bank is open. So you effectively have a banking outage every night from about 5pm until 9am the next more and the majority of the weekend.



    If anyone goes to the bank for social interaction then they really need to get out more. The whole point of mobile banking is that i can be out and about doing stuff while banking and not stuck in a bank branch.

    I have no idea of your personal situation but i work all week and at the weekend's i want to be out and about doing things i enjoy and certainly not going into town, i have only been into my local town once or twice this year.

    You also don't need to worry about fraud, the majority of fraud relies on the person falling for a scam and handing over the money. Plenty of fraud happens to people who also don't use online banking. If your smart enough to not get scammed now then it won't be any different with online banking.

    Nobody has ever lost money due to online banking fraud where it wasn't there fault.



    Well it turned out your far less of a technophobe than you made out to be as your happy to apply for accounts online. But if you want me to comment on that then you can definitely improve you regular savers and instead of getting only 2% and 2.3% interest you could have 2 or more paying 5% interest. But if you won't go with online only banks or banks with no local branches then you may miss out on these. One of my regular savers i still have running pays 6% interest with First Direct which is online/telephone only.
    So you probably have the best you can get working with the limitations of only using branches but you can definitely do a lot better.

    I want to make it clear i'm not trying to force you to do anything i just want a good discussion/debate on the subject. You can rip apart how i bank as much as you want and point out all the flaws because an opposing view always makes a good discussion. But if you don't want to discuss it further then fair enough.


    The problem is this doesn't feel like a good discussion/debate anymore. I'm not going to trawl through all of this, and I've only skimmed the bottom paragraph. When I say apply online, I mean I filled out an application form online. I received Passbooks for both the regular saver accounts which I send with a cheque once a month. Very different to an 'online account' which is accessible online only. What started out as a topic thread about cheques clearing within one working day has kinda turned into a bit of a cheque user witch hunt (and now to interest rates), that's how it has come across with the whole 'wasting time,' 'spend time more enjoyably' comments which weren't necessary at all and I feel like you're still doing it by saying I'm not maximising what I have, when in fact I'd say I'm getting more than you are by the sounds of it.

    Those 5% Regular Savers you speak of, you need to have a Current Account with those provider. Those Current Accounts generally don't give that greater incentives. And the 5% Regular Savers are £200-£300 a month for 12 months only, paying up to £100, then after 12 months you have to start over again as they are 12 months only. It never really accrues a lot. The 2% Regular Saver I have is £250 a month, but the term is unlimited (up to £750k, but I won't live that long to reach that level! And the only one on the market which is an unlimited term) so that accrues year after year after year. The 2.3% Regular Saver is paid out on an operating balance (excl. interest) up to £6,000. Once £6,000 is reached, as long as I stop making deposits, I will still get the pay out every year as it doesn't mature into a maturity account. So in that one alone, I can deposit at least double the 5% First Direct one for example, and still get the interest year after year, whereas those 5% ones convert to an easy access paying 0.5% or something.

    Likewise the 4% Help to Buy ISA has no max. balance, so I can keep depositing year after year. This account will would have netted me £1,500 alone in 3 years time, more than you getting £99 a year with First Direct Regular Saver opening one a year for 5 years. That's about £550 over five years (it's 5% now, not 6%, which you will only get presently until the term ends), which is £950 less than me depositing less per month and at a lower rate as it always accrues.

    Trust me, I know how they all work. I've spent long enough looking at this website. I'm not limited as I've just highlighted, as I'm actually getting more than you are because mine aren't fixed for 12 months where I have to keep starting over, mine are 24 months to unlimited terms, so your assumptions are wrong.

    I have the best paying Current Accounts and Regular Savers for the long term, which returns more interest than those short term ones you are referring to. I don't need to bank online to get these rates.

    And yes, I use cheques to deposit to each of them every month as that suits me dandy and I have a record of it in a Passbook! If that makes me old-fashioned, despite being a young persons, then that is absolutely fine by me. Sometimes the old ways are the best ways. :beer:
  • bigadaj
    bigadaj Posts: 11,531 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Often the old ways are the worst.

    With a long term view then saving money into regular savers is a terrible option at your indicated rates.

    You are losing money in real terms to inflation and getting around a third of the return you would expect from equity investments, still your money.
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