FTB - Week 17 of process - seller is selfish a-hole

littlemissrach

Hi all, sorry for the further post.. we are now coming into week 21...
Our vendor has delayed and delayed taking in the signed paperwork until yesterday.. everyone has been ready to exchange except him for a number of weeks and we had been working towards a mid November exchange / late November completion....

We offered to pay the indemnity insurance for the build over agreement and the other side ended up paying full repairs to a flat roof (despite initially it being agreed 50:50) to try and speed up the process...

He has now come back with a proposed date of 5th January.. this feels like a complete kick in the teeth and disrespectful proposal after everything he’s done to delay things. His solicitor and estate agent had advised him that they didn't think this would be accepted given our mortgage offer runs out and the frustration felt across the chain but he still wanted it putting forward.

I’m so so frustrated and he has made this process so stressful and I want to cry.. to me, a date 7 weeks away is completely unreasonable and I know the people on the other side of the chain are at their wits end and are sick of him... other than him arranging to move, there is nothing else to do..

Would I now unreasonable going back and saying no, we want to move before Christmas or we will walk?
Whats our options here? How do we approach this because I feel like we are being walked all over

thanks in advance

bagpussbear

littlemissrach wrote: »

Would I now unreasonable going back and saying no, we want to move before Christmas or we will walk?
Whats our options here? How do we approach this because I feel like we are being walked all over

thanks in advance

Given your mortgage offer will expire before then, no it would not be unreasonable for you to go back and say no.

Stick to your guns, insist on exchange in December, and be prepared to walk if he doesn't agree. The seller sounds very selfish, or a bit deluded.

anselld

littlemissrach wrote: »

Would I now unreasonable going back and saying no, we want to move before Christmas or we will walk?

It is a negotiation. You can go back and ask nicely for a date before Christmas, but there is no point making empty threats when you clearly have no intention of walking.

AnotherJoe

You know what your options are, and given you’ll need a new mortgage I’d be going for the nuclear option, exchange within 2 weeks. complete by something like mid Dec* or whatever fits your mortgage offer requirements, or you walk. In the meantime, start looking elsewhere for real.

* never understood this desire to move just before xmas, anything wrong and getting someone in t9 fix will be anywhere between impossible and impossibly expensive

phillw

I would have walked away already.

If he had a previous sale lined up that fell through and still isn't ready to move then I wouldn't trust his January date either.

I'm a little confused where the chain comes from if the house is empty and you are living with parents.

If he's telling you that he's using the empty house towards buying a new property (otherwise I'm not sure why he'd need to make a mortgage application), then he seems to be delaying for no good reason. If the empty house isn't empty, then it would seem he lied.

Thrugelmir

Why is the property empty? Is it a probate sale.

harshitguptaiitr

Ask estate agent a direct question

Will completion happen 2 working days before your mortgage expiry date?
(Give him the mortgage expiry date)


If the answer is YES, ask for exchange date and wait
If the answer is NO, walk away
If the answer is MAYBE, walk away

Tiglet2

Fast forward to where we are now.. Our paperwork has been in place and ready for completion for a significant number of weeks, we just need to pay our Solicitor’s bill and there are 3 enquiries that our Solicitor is awaiting some further information on which should hopefully be back this week.

Mr X’s searches came back 20/10/2017, there are 10 enquiries ongoing at the moment but we are assured that they are working through them.

We have been pushing for an estimated timescale in absence of a formal date being agreed which our Solicitor advised can be done after enquiries have been responded to.

You instructed solicitors on 4.7.2017
Mr X probably instructed solicitors in Oct 2017 (since you say this is when he commissioned searches)
Enquiries (3 on your purchase, 10 on his) are still outstanding.
Mr X's purchase property is empty (is it probate, if so, how far along?)
Mortgage Offer expires December. Mortgage lenders often extend their offers.

Reading through your OP, it is impossible to estimate a timescale until those enquiries are dealt with. Do you know if the empty property is a probate sale? If it is, has probate been granted? While 5th January may seem unreasonable (due to mortgage offer expiry), this is just a date thrown out there to try and satisfy your anxiety. All you can do is get the EA to chase the enquiries and you should speak to your broker/lender about extending the mortgage offer. Otherwise, sit back and relax, it is far more stressful when you have to buy and sell, as you will find out when you come to sell in a few years time.

kirtondm

From the original post something to do with redemption fee

Is probably the answer he has always wanted to wait unitil he won't have to pay this so probably always knew it would be Jan.

I would give him an ultimatium but be absoulty prepared to follow through.

bowlhead99

littlemissrach wrote: »

He has now come back with a proposed date of 5th January.

His solicitor and estate agent had advised him that they didn't think this would be accepted given our mortgage offer runs out and the frustration felt across the chain but he still wanted it putting forward.

OK, so it has been put forward. And from his perspecitve, there's no harm in him asking whether or not his advisors think it will be accepted.

That doesn't mean you need to accept the proposal. You can simply say, "No, we're unable to complete in January 2018 as our mortgage offer will have expired well before that point as it was applied for in June when you agreed to sell us the house.

We're not in a position to exchange contracts with a January completion date. We propose completion on [x date], let's exchange contracts by Friday, do you accept our proposal?".

I’m so so frustrated and he has made this process so stressful and I want to cry..

The difference is, from his point of view he is laid back and not at the point of crying. Any negotiation or ultimatum is about who is most likely to cry and give in for an easy life.

As such, while you don't *want* to apply for another mortgage (and presuming your personal circumstances haven't changed, there's no reason you couldn't apply for another one)... then however much you *feel* that 7 weeks is completely unacceptable, it might well be something you will accept rather than go through it all over again on a different property for another 6 months, cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Therefore it made sense (to him) to ask for January, if that suits him.

Whats our options here? How do we approach this because I feel like we are being walked all over

Just think of it as him asking for January (which is a request, chancing his luck) rather than saying it can't happen until January (which is something which will upset you and might cause you to give up).

So:
1) in the first instance go back and say January really doesn't work for you due to mortgage expiry and it needs to be exchanged this month for completion by December xth, and see what he says.

2) if he says from his perspective it needs to be January because otherwise he has to pay thousands more in a higher redemption penalty on his mortgage, or some other reason (or no real reason at all), you can propose that you will go and get a new mortgage offer for a Jan completion window but you need to exchange contracts by [date x] to have certainty that he is still serious, and he must reduce the house price by £6k to allow for your:

£995 extra mortgage application fee due to needing to apply again.

£500 valuation fee assoociated with new application.

£2500 extra mortgage interest over next 5 years on a fixed deal after interest rates rose and you couldn't complete at the lower rate that the bank made available when he accepted your offer but are now pulling because he did not want to sell to you in that 6 month window after all.

£2000 towards your alternative accommodation and storage costs due to not being able to move into the his property by December even though he agreed your offer to buy his house back in June.

Either he will agree to the lower price because January works better for him and he's not fussed about the money, or he won't because he doesn't really believe you'll walk away.

So you need to decide now whether you really would walk away or not if he refused to complete by your December date and wouldn't reduce the price.

The reality is that despite base rates ticking up a bit, most fixed rates are still quite competitive and interest rates are not forecast to rise again for some time, so you can probably get a decent deal that's as good or better than your current offer, if you reapply. You don't need to tell him that.

But basically you need to decide if you would , reeeeeallly:

a) be willing to walk away if there was no exchange of contracts within x weeks of today? (surely by now, yes you would be willing to walk away if he's just timewasting)

b) be willing to walk away if you are being forced to apply for a new mortgage without any kind of goodwill gesture from him and knowing you can't exchange until you have a new offer in your hand and at that point he might still mess you about again? (presumably yes you would be willing to walk away if that's the situation)

c) be willing to walk away if you agree to go and do another mortgage application and he agrees to drop the price to help you do that with a view to exchange by x December and a completion on x January (presumably walking away from the house in that situation would be a bit reckless on your part if you still really want it).