Being paid in counterfeit notes. Need advice!

stuartJo1989

SouthUKMan wrote: »

Are you for real? That in itself is fraud, and the likelihood is that another unsuspecting person will end up with the fake £20 and have it confiscated!

Indeed it is fraud.

I would hope that OP, or anyone else, would carry out due diligence and prevent themselves from ending up with fake notes to begin with.

If, however, they do end up with fake notes then (unless I'm mistaken) there are only two options:

1. Try and palm them off on other people

2. Allow them to be confiscated and have to rely on a fairly lengthy legal process with potentially no guarantee of payment (if the shopkeeper does a runner etc) and possible HMRC implications. Plus loss of future wages when you lose your job.

Not saying point 1 is right, but if your wages are meant to put a loaf of bread on your table and keep your heaters running then I can appreciate why option 1 would be a more attractive proposition.

stuartJo1989

unholyangel wrote: »

Cash in hand & no contract does not necessarily mean the OP isn't "on the books" paying whatever they are due in tax & NI.

You are correct.

But Cash in hand & no contract does not necessarily mean the OP IS "on the books" paying whatever they are due in tax & NI.

So a consideration must be made in that respect too.

Also, I believe a FTT (tribunal) has previously decided that in those circumstances (employer failing to make the deductions) that the liability to HMRC is the employers as they are under an obligation to make deductions under PAYE. Although it can transfer if the employee knew his employer had deliberately failed to make the deductions (or something along those lines).

Fair enough! Though it raises two immediate questions:

1. Will HMRC be immediately aware of this FTT ruling or will OP potentially need to pay a third party (ie lawyer) to present that argument to them?

2. If the company is fined or taxed for not making the deductions under PAYE, will this have any possible impact on OP's job in the long term? More so if the shop operate a tight profit margin and possibly take steps, like the other part of your post alluded to, in order to reduce the bill?

unholyangel

stuartJo1989 wrote: »

You are correct.

But Cash in hand & no contract does not necessarily mean the OP IS "on the books" paying whatever they are due in tax & NI.

So a consideration must be made in that respect too.

Absolutely. I was just trying to point out that you're maybe being a little harsh on the OP - I think given its his first job and he's a student, he's possibly just unaware of what his employer can/cant do.

Fair enough! Though it raises two immediate questions:

1. Will HMRC be immediately aware of this FTT ruling or will OP potentially need to pay a third party (ie lawyer) to present that argument to them?

2. If the company is fined or taxed for not making the deductions under PAYE, will this have any possible impact on OP's job in the long term? More so if the shop operate a tight profit margin and possibly take steps, like the other part of your post alluded to, in order to reduce the bill?

HMRC in a general sense, yes - they should since they were party to the proceedings.

Forgive me for asking, but do you have an axe to grind with OP or just a runaway imagination? Because you seem quite bent on finding something to pick fault with him over. I know students can be quite hapless and annoying at times but I daresay neither of us were as wise then as we are now

Lrnwrhrst

The bank gave me a receipt to show my manager of the money confiscated off me but didn't bother asking where or how I got the fake notes in the first place. I bought myself one of those pens to check for counterfeit notes online and just went through the rest of my wages to find even more fake notes. I believe the boss knew they were fakes and just gave them to me as he didn't know what else to do with them. (He's owned various shops for years)

hollydays

If he’s that dodgy he may know exactly what he’s doing.
Is the workmate really off Ill or have them left after a showdown.?
Has the boss decided you are the least likely to kick up a fuss?

Hermione_Granger

unholyangel wrote: »

Cash in hand & no contract does not necessarily mean the OP isn't "on the books" paying whatever they are due in tax & NI.

But surely if they were paying tax and NI, they would have some form of documentation to reflect this.
At the very least, they would have been required to provide a NI number to their employer and when they received their wages, they must by law be given a full breakdown of any deductions made.
Anything else is. in the OP's own words:

Lrnwrhrst wrote: »

now got my first 'secure' job, just a little one working in a local convenience store. It's a little dodgy

unholyangel

Hermione_Granger wrote: »

But surely if they were paying tax and NI, they would have some form of documentation to reflect this.
At the very least, they would have been required to provide a NI number to their employer and when they received their wages, they must by law be given a full breakdown of any deductions made.
Anything else is. in the OP's own words:

As I said earlier, many small businesses aren't aware of their obligations or just don't care.

Bear in mind i'm not saying the OP's job is definitely on the books/legitimate - just that legitimate jobs can still be a little dodgy, paying cash in hand and/or having no contract of employment.

But in any event, its a bit unfair to be browbeating the OP over their employers wrongdoing and a bit unreasonable in the circumstances to expect him to know what should/should not happen when its his first job - unless things have changed in the last 15 years, its not something they teach in school. Indeed the way our school system works (and society in general) is to condition kids to obey/believe what adults/people in positions of authority tell them.

shaun_from_Africa

Lrnwrhrst,
What sort of condition were the counterfeit notes in? and if they were very good, did you by any chance notice if any of them had sequential numbers? (assuming that all the numbers weren't the same).

It would be very unlucky for a single shop to be given more than an occasional dodgy note as I doubt if the people passing these would keep going back to the same place time after time.
Because of this, it's possible that the shopkeeper may even be involved in the manufacture or distribution of the fakes and he is using his workers to distribute them.

stuartJo1989

unholyangel wrote: »

Absolutely. I was just trying to point out that you're maybe being a little harsh on the OP - I think given its his first job and he's a student, he's possibly just unaware of what his employer can/cant do.

Well, he's aware that "its a little dodgy" so I had some basis to make that point. Not to disagree with your point like, but I did have a solid basis for "being a little harsh".

HMRC in a general sense, yes - they should since they were party to the proceedings.

Fair enough, I'd assume so too but you never know...

Forgive me for asking, but do you have an axe to grind with OP or just a runaway imagination? Because you seem quite bent on finding something to pick fault with him over. I know students can be quite hapless and annoying at times but I daresay neither of us were as wise then as we are now

I don't have an axe to grind! Thought I provided a fair an honest assessment of the next steps to be honest (small claims court). Also some advice for the future.

lammy82

I would advise going to your employer, looking him in the eye, and telling him that the bank rejected some of the notes he paid you. If he did it on purpose and knows you're on to him, but wants to keep you in employment, he should pretend it was a mistake, give you genuine notes, and not palm off fake notes to you in future.

If he is not willing to admit error, and is willing to lose your employment, he will dig his heels in, deny he gave you fake notes, and maybe accuse you of lying. In which case you are free to take it as an expensive life lesson, or pursue the matter with the police.