Where do I go?

tillersville

I am currently in the process of purchasing a new gas fire. I visited a store saw one I liked then someone came out and quoted for fitting it. I queried whether we would need anything doing to the chimney and the man thought not, though he advised we get the chimney swept and suggested a local sweep who they use regularly. When the chimney was swept the sweep advised we would need a liner putting in as the chimney was putting out smoke from 2 pots at the roof. I agreed to this and rang the company to ask if the new liner would change when the fitters would come etc due to the work involved and was assured it would not. I asked the sweep about the liner and how it would be fitted and he stated they’d go up and drop it down.
My house is a 3 storey Victorian Terrace and I was shocked they could do this without scaffolding but he assured me this would be fine, and I told him I was glad as if we required scaffolding I would not go ahead as we have used scaffolding 3 times on the chimney due to leaks and I did not want the extra cost for a fire we would only be using maybe once a week in winter.
Roll on to yesterday when the fitters arrived and they said ‘oh it’s high’ but assured me they were waiting on someone with a longer roof ladder to come and proceeded to rip out my old fire. When they’d ripped it out they then informed me the man with the longer ladder said they’d need a tower... the same scaffolding I had expressly said I would not be happy to have and as such would have declined to purchase my new fire. I am now left with a hole in my living room with a gas fire located in it but not piped in and they are saying they are not responsible for the height of the stack, something I agree with however surely they are responsible for assessing the building prior to commencing the work and as I had expressed I would not proceed if it required further costs the should cover the access costs??

Furts

You have legal duties imposed on you by the CDM Regs. This you will have passed to the fire company. They have a legal duty to operate safely on your home, consequently scaffolding , or mobile platform/cherry picker becomes a need.

In effect you are complaining because you did not budget for safe working. The follow on is you appear to value perhaps £1000 as being more important that a fatality should someone fall from your home.

The reality is if you want a safe job then you must find the money to have it done. Alternatively you throw caution into the wind, find some cash in hand merchants and get illegal work done.

This may all sound harsh, but it was up to you to sort all this out before work started - that is the principle behind the CDM Regs.

Doozergirl

A 'tower' isn't what I would call scaffolding. It might be made of scaffolding, but it is portable and nowhere near the complication and cost of erecting scaffolding. We call it a tower and know that we're not talking about actual scaffolding. I'm not sure what the problem with a tower would be.

I think you need to actually clarify what the charges were going to be with them. If you've declined on the basis of the charge of scaffolding when you said you didn't want it, I understand. The use of the word tower is confusing me as it isn't the same in my mind.

ice_bigfoot

The 2015 CDM Regs state that in the case of a domestic client, which I am assuming is the case here, all the client duties under CDM are passed to the first contractor on the site, automatically. The domestic client does not have to formally pass on these duties, or even do anything, the Regs assume the domestic client knows nothing about them.

That doesn't change the fact that no-one should be expected to risk their life to save some money. Whether the client or contractor ends up paying will probably be a matter of negotiation, whatever access equipment is used.

tillersville

Furts wrote: »

You have legal duties imposed on you by the CDM Regs. This you will have passed to the fire company. They have a legal duty to operate safely on your home, consequently scaffolding , or mobile platform/cherry picker becomes a need.

In effect you are complaining because you did not budget for safe working. The follow on is you appear to value perhaps £1000 as being more important that a fatality should someone fall from your home.

The reality is if you want a safe job then you must find the money to have it done. Alternatively you throw caution into the wind, find some cash in hand merchants and get illegal work done.

This may all sound harsh, but it was up to you to sort all this out before work started - that is the principle behind the CDM Regs.

At no point have I suggested anyone should go up on my roof without appropriate safety equipment, in fact quite the opposite given I questioned him when he said that they would go up without to it. My understanding is though that they should have known this was the case at the planning stage as th chimney stack has not changed in the interim, therefore access will be the same as then. I explained to them I would not undertake this if scaffolding is required and the tower they are talking about is scaffolding as the rear of my house has drop down steps they would need to bridge so a tower would not be appropriate. I believe that in ripping out my previous fire and then informing me of this cost, which is not something that has just cropped up! Is being deceitful and as such they should be liable for paying for the required scaffold.

Alex1983

I agree with you, how are you to know if scaffolding is required or not, they’ve looked at the job and said they don’t need it, that’s crazy to even consider going up 3 stories to put a flue liner but who are you to argue with them there surveying the job, they do this for a living. Once they’ve got there and decided they needed scaffolding, which is fair enough they should of said to you were sorry we need scaffolding and give you the option to pay for it or call the job off. I think they should make good the damage they’ve done or they should carry on at there expense.

Furts

tillersville wrote: »

I believe that in ripping out my previous fire and then informing me of this cost, which is not something that has just cropped up! Is being deceitful and as such they should be liable for paying for the required scaffold.

If you had an agreed written order, where the specification was a greed, with a fixed all in price then you are right. If the work was not priced like this then there is no way the fitting company will be erecting scaffolding free of charge.

I mentioned the CDM Regs and these are again relevant. The ethos behind these is to get the consumer to think about safety, such as access to roofs, and get a safe means of working agreed in advance of the works taking place. This should be in writing. Here you have failed in your approach.

You need to go back to the company, explain the CDM Regs, and see what happens. It might be the company is ignorant of these and then willing to do something for you.