Newbie advice 16 mins over (parking eye)

Edna_Basher

Have a look through PE's evidence to see if you can find the statement "Please be advised, this Parking Charge was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As such, the appellant’s comments regarding the Parking Charge Notice being issued incorrectly are not relevant in the case".

PE normally include this in "Golden Ticket" evidence packs. If it's in yours, you can draw this to POPLA's attention as evidence that PE have admitted that they failed to comply with POFA.

supertramp_1980

Edna_Basher wrote: »

Have a look through PE's evidence to see if you can find the statement "Please be advised, this Parking Charge was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As such, the appellant’s comments regarding the Parking Charge Notice being issued incorrectly are not relevant in the case".

PE normally include this in "Golden Ticket" evidence packs. If it's in yours, you can draw this to POPLA's attention as evidence that PE have admitted that they failed to comply with POFA.

funny enough, it does say that in their statement. if it wasn't issued under POFA 2012 then what was it issued under? i will happily include it in my statement i'm just not sure i really understand it

claxtome

Think the newbie sticky thread mentions about ParkingEye 'golden ticket' with links to other threads.

supertramp_1980

i have got a golden ticket as they have omitted the POFA 2012 part from the PCN i'm just not 100% sure how to word it to use it as evidence

Redx

you cannot submit any evidence now

you can only highlight errors or issues in their evidence pack

so you highlight the fact they they have issued the NTK to the keeper yet have said they are not relying on POFA2012 , SO THE KEEPER IS NOT LIABLE FOR THE CHARGE

also check what they have said about GRACE PERIODS because this was a supposed overstay of 16 minutes and clause #13 has 2 grace periods which cover this

supertramp_1980

Redx wrote: »

you cannot submit any evidence now

you can only highlight errors or issues in their evidence pack

so you highlight the fact they they have issued the NTK to the keeper yet have said they are not relying on POFA2012 , SO THE KEEPER IS NOT LIABLE FOR THE CHARGE

also check what they have said about GRACE PERIODS because this was a supposed overstay of 16 minutes and clause #13 has 2 grace periods which cover this

sorry, i should have worded that differently, i didn't mean to suggest i was submitting new evidence. what they said on the grace periods is:

"ParkingEye operates a grace period on all sites which gives the motorist time to enter a car park, park, and establish whether or not they wish to be bound by the terms and conditions of parking. There is a sufficient grace period in place at this site which is fully compliant with the BPA code of practice. All grace periods in place are a minimum of 10 minutes or more in line with the BPA Code of Practice"

Redx

in that case comment that as the parking fee was paid and so TWO grace periods apply , one before and one after , its not unreasonable to assume that the initial time to park up and get a ticket is up to 10 minutes and its more than 10 minutes to leave a busy car park in a holiday area at the time of year

their evidence pack should show the time the ticket was purchased, so 3 hours after that it lapses, this should give you the first and second actual grace periods compared to the anpr photo timings

we have seen other popla appeals won recently where the assessor has mentioned this, so look them up and see what they said

then include that in the rebuttal too

and do not forget , you are commenting on their evidence pack, not adding to your own case , so stick with finding and rebutting their pack, so contracts , signage , grace periods, POFA2012 failures and admissions etc

supertramp_1980

I've nearly ran out of space, i can only add 200 words. what i put is:

parking eye have said in their statement "Please note that whilst the ‘Effective Date’ at the top of the contract demonstrating ParkingEye’s authority to operate at this site and issue Parking Charges has not been filled out, within the terms and conditions of the contract it clearly states that the definition of the ‘Effective Date’ “means the date of signature of this agreement or any Purchase Order received from the Customer (whichever is earlier)”. As the contract was signed on 05/04/2015, it is evident that the contract was effective from this date. It should also be noted that it is widely accepted as a standard industry practice and in the County Court that the date of signature of any such agreements is the effective date from which the agreement commences and the authority is given.

Based on that evidence, the contract that you've submitted states the term as "A period commencing on the effective date and expiring after 24 months" the contract term expired on 05/04/2017.

Parking Eye have said "Please be advised, this Parking Charge was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As such, the appellant’s comments regarding the Parking Charge Notice being issued incorrectly are not relevant in the case" The PCN has been issued to the keeper yet parking eye are stating that the PCN has not been issued under POFA 2012. if it has not been issued under POFA 2012, then the keeper cannot be liable for the charge.

the parking fee was paid and so TWO grace periods apply , one before and one after , its not unreasonable to assume that the initial time to park up and get a ticket is up to 10 minutes and its more than 10 minutes to leave a busy car park in a holiday area. the ticket was purchased at 13:07 which says we have used a grace period of 6 minutes to park, purchase the ticket and return to the vehicle. the 3 hours of paid parking takes us to 16:07 and we departed at 16:18 which is a grace period of 11 minutes which i do not believe is unreasonable.

KeithP

supertramp_1980 wrote: »

the parking fee was paid and so TWO grace periods apply , one before and one after , its not unreasonable to assume that the initial time to park up and get a ticket is up to 10 minutes and its more than 10 minutes to leave a busy car park in a holiday area. the ticket was purchased at 13:07 which says we have used a grace period of 6 minutes to park, purchase the ticket and return to the vehicle. the 3 hours of paid parking takes us to 16:07 and we departed at 16:18 which is a grace period of 11 minutes which i do not believe is unreasonable.

Can you work into that the fact that PE have stated "All grace periods in place are a minimum of 10 minutes or more in line with the BPA Code of Practice"?
Note that they say all grace periods.

Remember you are rebutting the operator's comments, so without something like that your comment could be seen as 'new evidence'.

supertramp_1980 wrote: »

I've nearly ran out of space, i can only add 200 words.

That in itself should not be a limiting factor.

Although you should keep your comments concise and to the point, it is possible to send them as a PDF email attachment.

This may help:

Umkomaas wrote: »

Convert it to a .pdf file and attach it to an email to POPLA. Make sure you have all your reference numbers on the email and the rebuttal document.

...or this:

Edna_Basher wrote: »

Don't feel the need to be constrained by the rubbish 2000 character limit on POPLA's website, nor by the website's failure to allow files to be uploaded at the rebuttal stage of the process.

You can write as much as you like in your rebuttal of ECP's evidence and then send it as a PDF by e-mail to POPLA.

supertramp_1980

thanks keithp for all of your help. i don't want to go on for page after page. the original appeal was 5000 words which covers all of the important parts i'm pretty sure we'll have this in the bag as the they have failed to meet the BPA COP on the notice period and "golden ticket" and this is hopefully just poking a few more holes in their evidence pack. with the blunders they have put in the evidence pack i'm quietly confident.

i'll have a re jig of my wordings and get it off to POPLA tonight as we're away for a few days and i don't want to rush around like a loon when i get back

thanks again