Notice Period - How Long Do You Have to Give?

gingerdad

He needs to check his contract as if he's been tuped across the various companies it could be quite high

mine is 12 weeks notice as per my contract but our staff is only a week

[Deleted User]

Spoke to my son last night, he has checked his contract and it states he has to give one months notice. He is going to work with that at the moment but is also going to try and discretely confirm it with HR when the heat from these recent promotions and his disappointment has died down a bit.

Should have more information after his performance review later today.

[Deleted User]

My son rang me during his lunch break to discuss the performance review he had this morning. Some of the feedback he has received I find quite staggering and I can only commend my son on his composure in what is clearly becoming a very trying situation.

I’ll try and explain all of it as best I can but, I’ll also apologise now, as this is going to be a long post.

First of all he found out that management’s decision on who to promote was based purely on the answers given to the questions asked at the first interview and each candidates subsequent scores! The second interview was merely to put each of them under some added pressure!

He was told that he had basically fallen down on three questions. These questions were all in the form of … “From your own experience working in the laboratory, tell us of a situation where …”.

So, Question 1. “From your own experience working in the laboratory, tell us of a situation where you have been unable to complete all the work and tests allocated to you for a particular day and what you have subsequently done about it.”

I’ve mentioned previously that the work and tests carried out in the area of the the lab that my son works in are critical to the business of the lab. So critical in fact that, both the current and previous companies that have owned the lab have all insisted that these type of tests have to be carried out on the day allocated, pretty much at all costs! If at any time it becomes apparent that the daily quota of tests will not be completed, senior management have to be informed! So far, my son and the other technicians who have worked in these areas have managed to complete their quotas but all of them built up lots of overtime or TOIL.
My son answered this question by reminding them of the area of the lab that he worked in and of their own rules regarding test quotas having to be finished on the day. He also mentioned one situation where, on a particular day, it quickly became obvious to my son that he wasn’t going to finish the daily quota without help. So, he acted on his own initiative, and organised additional help from another area of the lab to carry out some of the basic prep work for the tests that any of the lab techs could do. He ended up working more than two hours’ overtime that day but got his quota completed.

He failed with this answer because they wanted details of how he would have rescheduled any future work and how he would contacted the relevant clients to inform them that their test results were delayed and to apologise for the delay, etc!?!

Question 2. “From your own experience working in the laboratory, tell us of a situation where you clearly haven’t liked one of your colleagues and each of you have found it very difficult to work together and what you have subsequently done about it to resolve the matter.”

My son answered this question by stating that in the 10 years he had worked in that lab he had got on pretty well with all the other technicians that had worked there and couldn’t think of one occasion where this type of situation had arose.

He was told that he had “basically shot himself in the foot with this answer” and they’d had to mark it as a 0 (zero) score, as they were looking for a situation where the two colleagues had both gone to the supervisor/HR and had mediation talks, etc.

For Question 3, he was told the answer he gave was OK but he should have provided more detail.

My son asked that if they wanted more specific information during the interview, why hadn’t they said as much and asked further questions. He was told that they could only ask the questions they had on their sheets and had to ensure each candidate was asked the same questions.

If companies want answers to these sorts of questions to contain certain procedural type detail etc, they should set the scene for the questions by creating hypothetical situations. The way these questions have been worded/asked to my son, if you ask 100 people the same question you’d get 100 completely different answers.

After my son had asked some further questions of his own regarding his future etc, the lab manager told my son that she hoped the disappointment on this occasion wouldn’t dissuade him from applying for similar positions as and when they become available in the future because she knew that he could do the job with no problems at all! My son told her that if she was expecting that statement to ease his disappointment then she was sadly mistaken, in fact, if anything, it made it a lot worse.

Finally, the lab manager also told my son that because he was the most experience lab tech available, the company would be sending him on a two-day course so that he could learn a new method for the preparation and testing of the media they use in their microbiological tests. After the course he has to come back and teach this new method to all the other members of staff (including the supervisors and the newly promoted two). At this point my son said he smiled and started to laugh. When asked my he was laughing he said, “Given what I’ve just been through with my application and this review, if you cannot see for yourself how ironic that news is then I’m not going to explain it to you.” With that he got up and walked out.

As I said, I’m staggered by this and it just adds weight to his belief that they cannot afford to lose his skills and experience in the area of the lab that he currently works. I personally think he may have a case for discrimination. But I also know that he isn’t going to put himself through that and the sooner he gets out of that place the better.

JPW

polgara

I agree he needs to leave but its not down to discrimination (unless you can tell me what protected characteristic you believe he has been discriminated against). The main reason is he is unhappy and therefore will see everything as a slight - eg training others.

To be honest, the interview feedback sounds genuine and constructive - if he has never had a situation like the one being questioned then he needs to expand on 'what/how he would approach that as a leader'. For instance in relation to question 1 they are looking for what transferable skills he would have to problem solve when its not just a case of getting everyone to work for as long as it takes.

He could learn and improve his interviewing skills and potentially be successful next time but from your and his response that should somewhere else unless he can 'suck it up and wait'.

Undervalued

Deleted_User wrote: »

My son rang me during his lunch break to discuss the performance review he had this morning. Some of the feedback he has received I find quite staggering and I can only commend my son on his composure in what is clearly becoming a very trying situation.

I’ll try and explain all of it as best I can but, I’ll also apologise now, as this is going to be a long post.

First of all he found out that management’s decision on who to promote was based purely on the answers given to the questions asked at the first interview and each candidates subsequent scores! The second interview was merely to put each of them under some added pressure!

He was told that he had basically fallen down on three questions. These questions were all in the form of … “From your own experience working in the laboratory, tell us of a situation where …”.

So, Question 1. “From your own experience working in the laboratory, tell us of a situation where you have been unable to complete all the work and tests allocated to you for a particular day and what you have subsequently done about it.”

I’ve mentioned previously that the work and tests carried out in the area of the the lab that my son works in are critical to the business of the lab. So critical in fact that, both the current and previous companies that have owned the lab have all insisted that these type of tests have to be carried out on the day allocated, pretty much at all costs! If at any time it becomes apparent that the daily quota of tests will not be completed, senior management have to be informed! So far, my son and the other technicians who have worked in these areas have managed to complete their quotas but all of them built up lots of overtime or TOIL.
My son answered this question by reminding them of the area of the lab that he worked in and of their own rules regarding test quotas having to be finished on the day. He also mentioned one situation where, on a particular day, it quickly became obvious to my son that he wasn’t going to finish the daily quota without help. So, he acted on his own initiative, and organised additional help from another area of the lab to carry out some of the basic prep work for the tests that any of the lab techs could do. He ended up working more than two hours’ overtime that day but got his quota completed.

He failed with this answer because they wanted details of how he would have rescheduled any future work and how he would contacted the relevant clients to inform them that their test results were delayed and to apologise for the delay, etc!?!

Question 2. “From your own experience working in the laboratory, tell us of a situation where you clearly haven’t liked one of your colleagues and each of you have found it very difficult to work together and what you have subsequently done about it to resolve the matter.”

My son answered this question by stating that in the 10 years he had worked in that lab he had got on pretty well with all the other technicians that had worked there and couldn’t think of one occasion where this type of situation had arose.

He was told that he had “basically shot himself in the foot with this answer” and they’d had to mark it as a 0 (zero) score, as they were looking for a situation where the two colleagues had both gone to the supervisor/HR and had mediation talks, etc.

For Question 3, he was told the answer he gave was OK but he should have provided more detail.

My son asked that if they wanted more specific information during the interview, why hadn’t they said as much and asked further questions. He was told that they could only ask the questions they had on their sheets and had to ensure each candidate was asked the same questions.

If companies want answers to these sorts of questions to contain certain procedural type detail etc, they should set the scene for the questions by creating hypothetical situations. The way these questions have been worded/asked to my son, if you ask 100 people the same question you’d get 100 completely different answers.

After my son had asked some further questions of his own regarding his future etc, the lab manager told my son that she hoped the disappointment on this occasion wouldn’t dissuade him from applying for similar positions as and when they become available in the future because she knew that he could do the job with no problems at all! My son told her that if she was expecting that statement to ease his disappointment then she was sadly mistaken, in fact, if anything, it made it a lot worse.

Finally, the lab manager also told my son that because he was the most experience lab tech available, the company would be sending him on a two-day course so that he could learn a new method for the preparation and testing of the media they use in their microbiological tests. After the course he has to come back and teach this new method to all the other members of staff (including the supervisors and the newly promoted two). At this point my son said he smiled and started to laugh. When asked my he was laughing he said, “Given what I’ve just been through with my application and this review, if you cannot see for yourself how ironic that news is then I’m not going to explain it to you.” With that he got up and walked out.

As I said, I’m staggered by this and it just adds weight to his belief that they cannot afford to lose his skills and experience in the area of the lab that he currently works. I personally think he may have a case for discrimination. But I also know that he isn’t going to put himself through that and the sooner he gets out of that place the better.

JPW

At a very quick read of your lengthy post I have to say I can see nothing whatever that is unlawful.

As another poster has indicated, unless your son can show that he has been discriminated against for one of the few reasons prohibited by law (sex, race, religion, sexual ordination etc) he has no lawful argument.

Ultimately all employment is about (lawful) discrimination eg who to hire, who to promote, who to give a pay rise etc. With only a few exceptions an employer is fully entitled to decide in whatever way they see fit.

polgara

Deleted_User wrote: »

But he needs to give answers as if the situation could occur, IE how would he deal with such an issue

But the questions asked don't mention 'or if the situation could occur.' They simply state ... From your own experience working in the laboratory, tell us of a situation where you have/haven't …

If you've never experienced such a situation you can't really answer the question asked. Hence my point that they should elaborate in those circumstances and create a hypothetical situation.
I personally have never been asked this style of question in my entire career.
.

Any good interviewing prep sites will tell you if you can't give an example from your experience then you explain how you would approach a situation. Like I said he needs to learn how to interview well - it is a skill just like being able to run lab tests etc and its obviously one that he is lacking in.

Undervalued

Deleted_User wrote: »

But he needs to give answers as if the situation could occur, IE how would he deal with such an issue

But the questions asked don't mention 'or if the situation could occur.' They simply state ... From your own experience working in the laboratory, tell us of a situation where you have/haven't …

If you've never experienced such a situation you can't really answer the question asked. Hence my point that they should elaborate in those circumstances and create a hypothetical situation.
I personally have never been asked this style of question in my entire career.

Maybe not and you could probably argue that their management style could be improved but that doesn't mean they are doing anything unlawful.

NeilCr

polgara wrote: »

Any good interviewing prep sites will tell you if you can't give an example from your experience then you explain how you would approach a situation. Like I said he needs to learn how to interview well - it is a skill just like being able to run lab tests etc and its obviously one that he is lacking in.

Yes. This.

Earlier in the thread OP you asked us to make our own minds. I had a look at your posts. At that time my impression was that your son is seen as a safe pair of hands and was well respected in the organisation. But, he either hadn’t got good leadership skills or didn’t interview well. Or, quite possibly, both.

Experience counts - but it isn’t everything. I’ve seen quite a few people with longer service in their job than your son who were damn good at what they did but couldn’t manage their way out of a paper bag. If their manager left/was on holiday they covered because they knew the work the best but they weren’t going to get the job permanently. Similarly some people just can’t interview. My best mate was great at his job but couldn’t get past a selection panel for love nor money.

Like others I think the feedback was quite reasonable and the offer of the extra training (while maybe a sop) isn’t to be sniffed at. I understand how disappointed your son was but his reaction wasn’t very clever and, maybe, underlined why he hasn’t been promoted in the past

I thought Comms was unnecessarily rough with you but the underlying message could well be right

ETA. I agree with those who say that there is no obvious discrimination

[Deleted User]

I would just like to take this opportunity to thank those of you that have provided helpful and constructive feedback.
However, one particular person who, although provided some valid comments, has soured it for me with their comments about my son.

I apologise for biting, feeding that person ego, and replying back to them.

And with that, I'm out of here.

Fireflyaway

Hope all goes well but maybe take a step back and don't get so consumed in your sons work life. It must be worrying you and perhaps you get worried by other aspects of his life too? Be there for support but I'm not sure getting so immersed is good for you.