'This is not a PCN' ?

bad_bear

Hi Guys and my thanks in advance for all the fantastic info on the Newbie Sticky thread and any answers to my following quick question.

A windscreen notice was placed on the car in a car park on private land, run by VCS, and the reverse of the notice gives details of how to view details of the 'recorded contravention, and take the appropriate action' by visiting the myparkingcharge site (who I now understand are the guys responsible for chasing the 'fines'.

Having read the newbie thread I have of course not visited that site, lol, nor do I intend to! Also having read the info there I feel fully briefed as to what to do in the event of a NTK arriving in the post, however it is the terminology on the front of the windscreen notice that I am puzzled by.

It states 'THIS IS NOT A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE'.

The reverse does state that 'a Parking Charge Notice may be issued to the Registered Keeper through the post'. (I apologise I cannot upload a photograph at the moment - I have cursed and sworn at it but the is not persuading my camera any!!)

Just wondering for what reason the PCN is worded to specifically say that it isn't?? Is that a get out/get round clause with regards to the time frame in which they can contact the DVLA or other such fiddle??

Clearly I am going to follow advice in the newbie thread, keep this 'not PCN' and await any postal correspondence etc, but really just wanting to cover my butt and make sure I am not doing something I shouldn't, not not doing something that I should, or missing basically something vital that may prove a help or hindrance further down the line.

Thanks again!

Umkomaas

There’s no magic ‘get out’, it’s what the DVLA swallowed as being acceptable. Expect a full blown NtK within the next few days.

It stinks, but there you go. It’s why we come here every day to fight this stuff. I can tell you for sure, if the FightBack forums weren't in existence, the PPCs would have almost every motorist over a barrel, gouging cash from them on an industrial scale.

There is no regulation. Involve your MP. There’s a Private Members Bill going through the Commons in February. Do a search here on Sir Greg Knight for details, ask your MP to support the Bill

bad_bear

Ah, thank you Umkomass

It is thanks to sites like these that folks at least have a notion of what they can do in their defense!! I shall look into that Bill, too, thanks for passing on the info.

Umkomaas

bad_bear wrote: »

Ah, thank you Umkomass

It is thanks to sites like these that folks at least have a notion of what they can do in their defense!! I shall look into that Bill, too, thanks for passing on the info.

If it gets to that stage, it’s ‘defence’. Brexit doesn’t mean we’re becoming the 51st state of the US!

bad_bear

Ooops.......... and no we certainly aren't!!!

Now I shall have serious words with predictive text mode. Here's hoping they have more effect than they did on my camera. Though I doubt it

Coupon-mad

If you search this forum, or even Google, for 'myparkingcharge.co.uk' you will find umpteen threads to read.

RobinofLoxley

bad bear.. Is your 'non' PCN the same as this one from another thread? This doesn't say 'This is not a parking charge notice' on the front. As it's a few months old they have changed them.



These windscreen 'tickets' despite claiming not to be, would with the yellow & black chequered borders, certainly look to most people like an official Notice to Driver. In which case VCS would have to wait until day 29 before applying to the DVLA for the keepers details.

I'm sure a CC Judge could be persuaded that these windscreen 'tickets should be classed as a Notice to Driver, therefore making a NTK issued before day 29 invalid by failing to meet the requirements of POFA. Does anyone know if this has ever been brought up in a court claim?

The other issue I can see here is that the motorist is told to log on to myparkingcharge.co.uk and 'take the appropriate action', which I presume means pay up.

Now who does the motorist actually make the payment to? Is it VCS or 'myparkingcharge'. Because 'myparkingcharge' is a trading style of Excel Parking Services and the creditor in this case is VCS. As we know they are completely seperate companies although owned by the same low life that is SRS.

bad_bear

Yes, that's what the reverse looks like. It is an interesting point as to who is being paid, since the website was not logged onto (you need to enter the vehicle details as well as your own in order to do this and, well, not being one to simply hand that info to them on a plate, lol!!) I can't comment as to that.

I am also one to presume that the 'appropriate action' involves simply handing over money though, so forget that too. I can personally think of far more appropriate courses of action, lol!

Any NTK has, thus far, not arrived in the post, so I am awaiting that little gem before doing anything further.

I am still a little confused as to the statement that it is not a PCN, (I am pretty sure this is done purposely to have folks log on to the website to find out if they have been ticketed or not and thus hand over their details without question. Sneaky!) and am thus, as you say, regarding this as a notice to driver and awaiting the NTK via the post.

I will let you know whether this arrives before or after day 29 and how that sits with the POFA requirements.

Umkomaas

Yes, that's what the reverse looks like. It is an interesting point as to who is being paid, since the website was not logged onto (you need to enter the vehicle details as well as your own in order to do this and, well, not being one to simply hand that info to them on a plate, lol!!) I can't comment as to that.

Why would you give them your real personal details. Put in a fictitious name and use a throwaway gmail email addy. There’s nothing they’ve got to link your personal data to that of the vehicle’s VRM.

Fight smoke and mirrors with, well, smoke and mirrors. Be creative.

bad_bear

OK, so the NTK arrived in the post on Friday. So, before proceeding I just want to double check with you folks....

First of all am I correct in assuming that the windscreen notification can be regarded as a NTD. As I stated originally the reverse of the windscreen notice states that 'this is not a PCN'. However, as RobinofLoxley states, I cannot fathom how this could not be regarded as one. If this is to be taken as a NTD then the 29 day waiting period required by POFA and the DVLA has been breached, no?

Alternatively, if I am to assume that this is not a PCN and thus the NTK must be issued within 14 days, then does this subsequently mean that liability has been passed from driver to keeper with the assumption that the keeper was in fact the driver, with no NTD being issued, even though a windscreen notification was placed. The 'fine' was NOT via ANPR so am I correct in the assumption that this in itself means that the details of the Keeper were obtained outside the requirements of POFA and the DVLA?

The confusion here has arisen due the statement that this is not a PCN and I just want to get all my ducks in a row before I let rip!!

I should add that I have read through the other threads about myparkingcharge.co.uk (Thank you Umkomass ) and would prefer to assume that this is a, albeit inadequate, NTD, and thus I am now clued up on how to refute this and complain to the DVLA for handing out the keepers details too early. I just want to be sure!!
Thanks for your help, you guys are great!!!

Edna_Basher

Schedule 4 of POFA defines "notice to driver" as meaning a notice given in accordance with paragraph 7 [of Schedule 4 of POFA].

In response to previous complaints about these myparkingcharge cards, the DVLA has stated that because they are not given in accordance with paragraph 7 (i.e. they do not comply with POFA) they cannot be considered to be notices to driver.

To quote the words of the great fisherjim, you couldn't make it up.