Civil Enforement ltd HELP NEEDED.....

love_life

Hi everyone ,
I have been reading alot of forum and threads about Civil Enforement ltd ,my story just a little bit different so any links to any other threads or any help much appreciated.

I was working for an agency for a building company on a new gym opening it was an old resturant or something being converted to a gym,it was located on a retail park with the usual shops tesco,frank and bennys,cinema etc...
when i arrived to start work we was told by the superviser/forman in charge there was an agreement with the paking company of the retail park to allow us to park there as we was working there and needed regular access to our vechiles for materials tools etc..
There wasnt alot of workers there probably 6 or 7 ,there was a skip outside with a portable toilet fenced of and we would park facing in so not taking alot of spacers up.
Upon arriving at site everyone had to sign the signing in book,date , name , signature and vechile registration number.This is why we had to write our vechile registraion numbers down as theses will be passed on to the parking company.
I have been in contact with other contractors who was on site same time as myself ,we parked next to each other on the car park,none of them had recieved a parking ticket in the post which i have.


I worked there for 1 week as i was waiting for another job to start,so couple of weeks later or month or so i got a parking letter in the post from civil enforcement, i ripped it up and threw it in bin then i got another one ,so i tried to contact them but there no one to talk to they have a payment line number no email so i sent them a letter explaining i was working there,had no reply from them until now and get a N1SDT COUNTY COURT BUSINESS CENTRE NORTHAMPTON
claim form in the post ,signed by Civil Enforement ltd.

I went to moneyclaim.gov as it says on the form made a goverment gateway ,put my information in, acknowledment of service and tick box defend all of this claim,today 22/10/2017.

I phoned the building company last week when i recieced the county court form dated 10/10/2017 .they was no help they said it was the gym who had the agreement .
so i emailed them yesterday and emailed the agency the same to send me proof i was working there hopefully hear something back monday /tuesday.

what i dont get i started work there monday 05/12/2016 which is the date the claim parking fine is for, but i parked there tues/wed/thurs and friday and got no fine for them days and as i said the other lads havent got a fine ,there been a mix up somewhere like my reg wasnt sent across on the monday for some reason ,i explained this on the letter to cel they must have records but they still want to persue to get money .

Its so frustrating want to spend weekend with my family instead of spending hours and hours of research trying to figue this out because some greedy company wants ridioulas amounts of money .

So if anyone can point me in the right direction any help much appreciated ,im a complete newbie not clued up at all about anything to do with the law or rules about this kind of thing ,i dont know where to start about putting a denfence together or how to do it .
thank you.

Coupon-mad

Just read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread and other CEL defence threads, and copy and adapt one from this month. Show us your draft defence and I would in your case actually admit you were the diver because your defence is so clear, you were an authorised, exempt worker.

In your case you'd do well if you could get a copy of that book with your VRN written in it (get the landowner to email you a pic) even though in fact you don't need to supply evidence attachments at this stage - it's for later.

Anyway start reading and show us that draft defence.

love_life

will do over the next couple of days thank you

love_life

Civil Enforcement Limited
V
XXXXXXXXXXX

Claim Number: XXXXXXXX

I am xxxxxxxxx , the defendant in this matter,i deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:
For the avoidance of doubt on the relevant date I was the driver of of the vechile xxxxxxx , parked at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
1. There is no contact number for claiment to discuss the matter and explain my case,there is only a paymentline number.
2. The defendant had written a letter to the claiments address to explain the following ,
A) the defendant was allowed to park at the relevant address as he was an exempt worker.
he was working for xxxxx on a new store opening xxxxxxxxx,there was an agreement with xxxxxx and civil enforcement to allow the workers to park,upon arriving at the store the worker would have to sign the signing in book,date , name , signature and vechile registration number , as this information will be passed on to claiment as an exempt worker and be excludeded from receiving a PCN.

C) the defendant parked at the the relevant address, for 1 week monday 05/12/16 to friday 09/12/16 ,and only recieved a PCN for 05/12/16 ,as the claiment had recieved the defendants VRN information from xxxxxxxx , which made him exempt from receiving a fine ,as this was his place of work,the claiment will have this information,thats why he did not recieve any other fines on the other dates.

D) the claiment failed to reply to the defendants letter .

3. The Claim Form issued on 10/10/2017 by Civil Enforcement Limited was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Civil Enforcement Limited”.
4. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017), a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.
5. No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
It is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.
6. Section 7 of the British Parking Association Code of Practice outlines to operators some of the common law principles of operating on someone else's land as a licensee. One such item is written authority - a written contract - to be there. It defines the elements of this written authority as follows:
A) If you do not own the land on which you are carrying out parking management, you must have the written authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed agent) before you can start operating on the land in question. The authorisation must give you the authority to carry out all the aspects of the management and enforcement of the site that you are responsible for.In particular, it must say that the landowner requires you to keep to the Code of Practice and that either you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges, through the courts if necessary or that you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges and, with their permission, through the courts if necessary.
B)If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.
C)The written authorisation must also set out:
D) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined.
E) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation.
F) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement
G) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs.
H) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.
7. If in the alternative it is the claimant's case that his claim is founded in trespass (which is in any event denied) then in a car park setting any damages in trespass can only be assessed based on a calculation of the proportion of income lost based on the time of the alleged occupation. Any sum sought could therefore only be minimal and de-minimis.

8. That the amount demanded is therefore excessive and unconscionable and especially so when compared to the level of Penalty Charge Notice issued by the local Council which is set at £50 or £25 if paid within 14 days.
4(5) Schedule 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which sets out that the maximum amount recoverable from the registered keeper .

I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

love_life

should i take out the whole of section 6 out not sure , dont know what elses to put in . thanks

Loadsofchildren123

Good start, well done.

Have you checked if CEL is BPA or IPC. If it's IPC your whole section 6 is wrong anyway (they have their own Code of Practice).

After 1st sentence of para 4 you should add a sentence about how they've failed to comply with the Protocol - eg they haven't sent a proper Letter Before Claim explaining what the claim is for, and no explanation of how they will evidence it, they have failed to address your assertion to had authority to park and they did not give you sufficient time to reply and to request further information, they have not provided a proper breakdown of all the sums they are seeking to recover.

Please try and get hold of some evidence that you provided your VRN every day.

Para 1C make it clear you had authority to park throughout Monday to the Friday.

What does the claim form say? Does it say that full Particulars of Claim are to follow? If so you didn't need to complete the AOS and have more time to prepare your defence. You don't have to file your defence until AFTER you've received the further PoC. Please find and read the CEL general advice thread I started earlier today and read it again after I update it tomorrow with specimen letters. CEL are being very sneaky and sending the further PoC late, but backdating them to make it look like they were in time. You need to wrong foot them.

The good news is that CEL often withdraw claims, but only when they can see you are putting up a good fight. Son fortunately you still have to do all the work.

I'd bung in a counterclaim - as you were authorised to park they should never have requested your data, and after you drew this to your attention they should have ceased to retain and process your data, all in breach of the Data Protection Act. Seek damages of £500. However you'd have to argue it properly and I'd understand if you chose not to counterclaim because just defending is hard enough.

love_life

Thanks will after work, working late, thanks

love_life

my updated defence before i send it ,is it ok is there anything i need to change take out or add thank you.



In The County Court
Claim Number:xxxxxxx

Between
Civil Enforcement Limited ( Claimant )
V
XXXXXXXXXXX ( Defendant )
_________________________
DEFENCE STATEMENT
_________________________


I am xxxxxxxxx , the defendant in this matter,i deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim or any amount at all, for each of the following reasons:
For the avoidance of doubt on the relevant date I was the driver of the vechile xxxxxxx , parked at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
1. There is no contact number for claimant to discuss the matter and explain my case and resolve the issue ,there is only a paymentline number.
2. The defendant had written a letter to the claimant to explain the following ,
A) the defendant was allowed to park at the relevant address as he had authorised permission as a worker.
he was working for xxxxx on a new store opening xxxxxxxxx,there was an agreement with xxxxxx and civil enforcement to allow the workers to park,as they needed regular access to there vechiles for materials for site and tools , upon arriving at the store the worker would have to sign the signing in book,date , name , signature and vechile registration number , as this information will be passed on to the claimant as an exempt worker and be excludeded from receiving a PCN.

C) having authorised permission as a worker and being exempted from receiving a fine the defendant parked at the the relevant address, for 1 week monday 05/12/16 to friday 09/12/16 ,and only recieved a PCN for 05/12/16 ,as the claimant had recieved the defendants VRN information from xxxxxxxx , which made him exempt from receiving a fine ,as this was his place of work,the claimant will have this information,thats why he did not recieve any other fines on the other dates.
D) the defendants co-workers have not recieved a PCN ,yet were all parked at the same location at the same times on the same dates, as having the same authorised permission as the defendant.

E) the claimant failed to reply to the defendants letter .

3. The Claim Form issued on 10/10/2017 by Civil Enforcement Limited was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Civil Enforcement Limited”.
4. There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction,and no explanation of how they will evidence the claim.
5. the claimant states on the claim form they will "provide the defendant with seperate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form " which they did not , defendant recieved particulars 17 days after claim form ,which had the date 11/10/2017 on them . ( sent out late and back dated ).
6. the particulars look like a generic drafted copy and paste ,they have no mention the defendant was an authorised worker.
7. claimant had failed to address that the defendant had permission to park and they did not give sufficient time to reply and to request further information,as to why he recieved a PCN in the first place .
8. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017), a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.
9. If in the alternative it is the claimant's case that his claim is founded in trespass (which is in any event denied) then in a car park setting any damages in trespass can only be assessed based on a calculation of the proportion of income lost based on the time of the alleged occupation. Any sum sought could therefore only be minimal and de-minimis.
10. That the amount demanded is therefore excessive and unconscionable and especially so when compared to the level of Penalty Charge Notice issued by the local Council which is set at £50 or £25 if paid within 14 days.

11. Schedule 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which sets out that the maximum amount recoverable from the registered keeper .
12. I believe the unfair terms in comsumer contract regulations 1999 applies.
A) It is asserted that no reasonable person of whatever means, would willingly agree to pay a charge of £100 as a consequence of staying over free time, if they had the opportunity to negotiate the contract on equal terms with the other contracting party.
I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.
Signed **** Date ****

Lamilad

Surprised you haven't cribbed from one the many many many other recent CEL threads on this forum which have better, more detailed defences......... Like this one:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5729157

love_life

also forgot to mention the POC and the county claim form went to my old adress my mums house which i do not live there anymore nor is the car registered there now ,its all in my new adress does this matter?as from the last few months

Quentin

It matters now you will be getting correspondence that shouldn't be ignored.


Contact the creditor and the court and notify them of your new address and ask them to send any future correspondence there