Charged with Benefit Fraud - Any advice?

Andy500

w06 wrote: »

With regard your son, please find a way to tell him the truth in an age appropriate way, before he finds out from somewhere else.

As a teenager I went out with a lad whose step dad (who he lived with) had been in prison for fraud, he was in prison when I first knew the lad.

I'd always thought that he just made up a cover story to tell everyone ('step dad worked away') because it was relatively common knowledge that the chap was in prison and the reason (rural area and local comp).

It wasn't something we ever discussed until, when he was about 13, he discovered the truth and was incredibly hurt that he'd been lied to, it damaged his relationship with all three parents more than the crime and sentence did with his stepdad. Please don't do that to your son.

That;s a sad story. i will make sure that doesn't happen with my son. I was with him today and we had a good day. Best day I've had since all this happened. I couldn't spoil it by telling him. I asked my ex not to say anything until i tell him and she said she would leave it to me to tell him about it which is something. I was thinking of telling him that I was going away with work for a while but like you said that could make things worse later even if it seems the easy thing to do now.

Andy500

deannatrois wrote: »

I think you need to tell your son that you did something wrong and you have a lot of regrets especially for the fact that it may mean you won't be able to see him for a while. Tell him that sometimes they send people away who do wrong things. Say what you can do, like write letters every week so he doesn't feel like you will totally disappear from his life.

BE SORRY in court. Don't breath a word of 'everyone does it only a few get found out'. Say that you now realise there were other solutions to the debt problems you had at the time and you should have found them then. They were a part of your lifestyle at the time when you had other criminal convictions but you haven't had any convictions for x years (hoping this is the truth) .., you have learned but not as quickly as you could have done.

And then put into practice what you have said. For your son. He's going to be the biggest loser in this.

Remember the Prosecution witnesses are going to be people who have put hours of work into discovering what you did before they saw you, who will hate what you have done as they WILL see it as a choice, and a very bad choice that you didn't have to make.

Turn this around. If you go to prison, when you come out you can turn it around. But you need to think differently. You still aren't there yet.

Its not just a prison sentence.

I had an ex. Three convictions for drink driving - he only learned his lesson when the judge locked him in the dock and scared him you know whatless. He could easily have killed people. He certainly caused us a lot of grief as I had constant visits from social workers linked to his probation terms. And a leg bracelet (yes we had security people come barging in when something broke and it stopped signalling, plus phone calls at any time to prove he was in my house. It was dreadful. And a large part of the problem was his attitude. He didn't understand honesty for a long time or responsibility, was a bit of a 'jack the lad' but translate that into fool rather than an affectionate term. He was very charming and thought he could get out of anything until he faced that one situation when he was a hairs breath from being locked up. It means that although I still love him, we will never have another relationship because I can never trust him. His son has suffered because of his behaviour and is only just starting to trust him again (kids can see things more clearly than adults sometimes) - he's 11 now. he's been hurt because his Dad just wasn't there in an emotional sense (although he couldn't see that), he couldn't be, he didn't have it in him. He has changed, he has made a LOT of effort to change, but there was a lot of harm done in the intervening years.., some of which I doubt can be undone. And yes, I have the shame of putting us in that situation.

Thanks for all the advice. What you said about how to tell him makes sense. I don't think you should blame yourself over what happened with your ex. Lucky we never had to deal with social workers or anything like that.

Andy500

davefrombristol wrote: »

Hi Andy

Stay strong and do your best through your solicitor to try and convince the court that you sincerely regret whats happened and that you won't do anything like this again. Offer to pay back on a regular basis and in fact start paying back now what you can as it will look better for you when you are finally sentenced. If you have hardly any previous convictions and nothing along the lines of fraud then 18 months could be the maximum of which you will serve roughly half about 9 months, although you might have a good case for a suspended sentence as its better to keep you in employment paying back each week.

30 years ago I was facing a case of fraud ( not benefit but credit card ) and found myself sentenced to 3 years for the grand sum of £100 and served nearly 2/3 of that and even now it holds me back as its never spent. You will get through it like I did, tough going at times but its important not to get depressed and feel helpless, this will be a very low point in your life but you have your whole life ahead of you and your son will need you, try not to paint a bleak picture to your son so as not to worry him.

All the best and fingers crossed, keep us informed as to what the outcome is if you can

Dave

Hi Dave,

Yeah the solicitor I was talking to reckoned the starting point for the sentence would be about 24 months but I would get less for pleading guilty and for not having a serious record. He said expect about 12 months at best and 18 months top so that's what I am going on. And I know you only do half of a sentence in prison and the rest on tag or on license.

That's crazy getting 3 years for £100 fraud. The laws mist have been much stricter then but I remember from when I was in the Army a soldier getting 12 months for a theft like that but they said it was a breach of trust and I thought that was harsh. were you expecting that kind of sentence? Did you have kids when you were sentenced and if you did did they visit you in prison? Am wondering how hard that would be and if it is possible is it a good idea?

trigger_fish

Mojisola wrote: »

So if you saw burglars walking out of a neighbour's house with their belongings, you'd keep quiet rather than 'snitch' on them?

If not seen I probably would. Maybe.

However, the Crown Prosecution service does not view unhindered burglary as a serious offence anymore. You might have to admit to 50 offences before you go down. And the victims never get their full goods or money back.

There have been cases in the media where the police don't come out and just issue a crime number for the house insurance if you have contents. The burglar often also shats on the flooring-rubbing the victims nose in it so to speak.

Personally I think burglary is a very serious offence. If you have the brass neck to enter someones home without permission not knowing that a person/s could be inside with what could happen after, then I see you as a dangerous individual.

And that trumps benefit fraud.

gettingtheresometime

Andy500 wrote: »

I know that but what I mean is I think it's much worse if I had of assaulted someone or broke into a house and stole. I know it's still wrong but it is government money..

HOW THE FLYING FISH DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT GETS ITS MONEY???

That money came from everybody who pays taxes.

davefrombristol

"That's crazy getting 3 years for £100 fraud. The laws mist have been much stricter then but I remember from when I was in the Army a soldier getting 12 months for a theft like that but they said it was a breach of trust and I thought that was harsh. were you expecting that kind of sentence? Did you have kids when you were sentenced and if you did did they visit you in prison? Am wondering how hard that would be and if it is possible is it a good idea?"

Hi Andy

I had no kids back then but from what I gather they encourage family visits nowadays, but wait till you get allocated to a semi open / open prison if the worse happens. You must plead guilty and discuss with your solicitor mitigating circumstances - also try and get character references for the court and even write your own letter to the court.

A long story what happened to me but I did plead not guilty to eight individual charges and was found guilty of four - total amount involved was just over £100 - of which £70 was an attempted use on a card transaction. The Judge made an example of me, it seems very different now although the mental health side of prisoners and the unpredictable nature of those in prison are what you will have to be watchful of. I went many months without a visit and contemplated suicide on my birthday, dark days but you get through it.

trigger_fish

Any prison sentence for £100 is clearly lunacy even 30 yeas ago.

I do know someone who was made an example of -a police chief superintendent who was convicted for fraud and did hard time and more than others for the same level of crime-let down the establishment see, tragic, one of them, let the side down for cigarette card fraud, lol.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1842538.stm


If anyone wants to know what 'cigarette card' fraud is I can explain.

trigger_fish

gettingtheresometime wrote: »

HOW THE FLYING FISH DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT GETS ITS MONEY???

That money came from everybody who pays taxes.

That's everyone then.

The tramp under the railway arch pays tax at any particular time.

parkrunner

trigger_fish wrote: »

Too often that argument is used by curtain twitchers.

It's a fact though.

Andy500

davefrombristol wrote: »

"That's crazy getting 3 years for £100 fraud. The laws mist have been much stricter then but I remember from when I was in the Army a soldier getting 12 months for a theft like that but they said it was a breach of trust and I thought that was harsh. were you expecting that kind of sentence? Did you have kids when you were sentenced and if you did did they visit you in prison? Am wondering how hard that would be and if it is possible is it a good idea?"

Hi Andy

I had no kids back then but from what I gather they encourage family visits nowadays, but wait till you get allocated to a semi open / open prison if the worse happens. You must plead guilty and discuss with your solicitor mitigating circumstances - also try and get character references for the court and even write your own letter to the court.

A long story what happened to me but I did plead not guilty to eight individual charges and was found guilty of four - total amount involved was just over £100 - of which £70 was an attempted use on a card transaction. The Judge made an example of me, it seems very different now although the mental health side of prisoners and the unpredictable nature of those in prison are what you will have to be watchful of. I went many months without a visit and contemplated suicide on my birthday, dark days but you get through it.

Man that sounds rough -were you not able to appeal your sentence?

I will be pleading guilty and am trying to get some references but am preparing for the worst.

Hard to imagine what it's like being locked up and not getting any visits. I suppose I'm lucky being ex Army that I think I would be able to handle prison OK but don't really now until I get there how I would cope.