Check-out/Deposit questions

trevormax

I have a few questions for the experts here and I'm hoping for some advice please.

This involves a privately rented property in Wales.

- Tenant 1 (T1) plus their family move in to a house and a deposit is paid by T1.

- A few years later, in the same property, T1 passes away. T1 does not owe any money on the property. T1 ws on a rolling monthly tenancy.

- T1's son becomes the new tenant (T2) as agreed by the landlord (LL). T2 signs a new contract with the LL. No check-out is done for T1's tenancy and no check-in is done for T2's tenancy.

- LL does not return T1's deposit to T1's executor. It remains in the same deposit scheeme under the same deposit reference under the name of T1. Conversely, T2 does not pay a new deposit.

- A few years later, T2 moves out of the property after giving suitable notice and does not owe any rent on the property. T2 carries out a deep clean of the property and leaves no rubbish or damage other than fair wear and tear after 10 years living there (pictures at time of leaving taken).

- T2 arranges for a check-out on the day keys are handed back. LL's agency attends but LL does not. Agency say they can not do the check-out but say the LL will do is in a few days at which point T2 will receive a report and return of deposit minus repairs etc.

- Fast-forward a month and deposit has not been returned. LL has also not contacted T2 to discuss repairs despite him having T2's new address and phone number.

My questions are:

1. Should the LL have returned T1's deposit to T1's executor and requested a new deposit from T2 upon start of a new tenancy? Should this deposit be returned to the executor immediately upon request from them?

2. Is it too late for the LL to do a check-out report for T1's tenancy to try to claim any damage/repairs?

3. As no check in was done for T2's tenancy, if the LL produces T1's check-in report, can the LL use T1's check-in to claim any damage/repairs against T2?

4. Given that it has been a month since T2 handed back the keys and he has heard nothing from the LL, is this too long for the LL to claim any damage caused by T2?

5. T2 is aware from friendly neighbours that LL went in to the property a couple days after having the keys back and started deccorating the property. Could T2 say any damage the LL says is there could have been from him going in to the property and begining DIY? (i.e. should the LL have raised any damage issues before doing DIY as this can no longer be seen by T2)

6. Can the LL claim deductions from T1's deposit for T2's tenancy?

Thanks for any help in advance

anselld

Contractually it is a mess.

However T2 cannot have their cake and eat it. If T2 wants to get their hands on T1s deposit they will also have to accept that the deposit covers both tenancies as far as damages are concerned.

The L will probably have difficulty proving those damages but that remains to be seen. They may have taken dated photos, etc prior to starting DIY.

Pixie5740

The deposit should have formed part of T1's estate when he passed away and the landlord should have taken a new deposit from T2 and carried out a check-in inventory when the tenancy with T2 started.

Was T2 the sole beneficiary of T1's estate?

Sarastro

trevormax wrote: »

1. Should the LL have returned T1's deposit to T1's executor and requested a new deposit from T2 upon start of a new tenancy? Should this deposit be returned to the executor immediately upon request from them?

2. Is it too late for the LL to do a check-out report for T1's tenancy to try to claim any damage/repairs?

3. As no check in was done for T2's tenancy, if the LL produces T1's check-in report, can the LL use T1's check-in to claim any damage/repairs against T2?

4. Given that it has been a month since T2 handed back the keys and he has heard nothing from the LL, is this too long for the LL to claim any damage caused by T2?

5. T2 is aware from friendly neighbours that LL went in to the property a couple days after having the keys back and started deccorating the property. Could T2 say any damage the LL says is there could have been from him going in to the property and begining DIY? (i.e. should the LL have raised any damage issues before doing DIY as this can no longer be seen by T2)

6. Can the LL claim deductions from T1's deposit for T2's tenancy?

Thanks for any help in advance

Qn1. Yes to first part. Yes to second part, minus damages if you can prove they were responsibility of T1.

Qn2: How would you prove any damage was done by T1 if another tenant has lived there for some time afterwards?

Qn3: No. How would you prove which Tenant did the damage?

Qn4: You don't have a deposit from T2 to deduct any damages from. The deposit from T1 has yet to go through probate and be inherited by T2. Even if it had, they would have inherited the cash not the deposit and would still have needed to give you a deposit for their tenancy.

Qn5: The LL should have taken photographs at the very least and even that's not a certainty. If the LL has repaired the damage without having an estimate of the cost from an independent source and photographs, I think they've accepted it as is. Even without proof, you still don't have a deposit to deduct it from.

Qn6: I think no. You would have to prove that the deposit was inherited by T2 and relates to his tenancy. As you didn't return it to T1's estate and don't have check-in reports, etc. I don't see how you can prove (1) that T2 did the damage and (2) that the deposit covered T2's tenancy.

trevormax

Thankyou all for the helpful replies. To answer your questions:

anselld: The deposit would be returned to T1's executor who is not T1 but family of T1.

Pixie5740: T2 was not a sole beneficiary. T1 had a husband who also passed away shortly after T1. They also had 4 children (T2 plus three siblings).

Sarastro: Thanks. This is the position I believed the LL and T2 would be in, in that the LL could not prove that:
a. T1 was responsible for any possible damage since no check out was done by the LL when tenancy changed over
b. T2 is responsible for any possible damage since no check in was done when he took a new tenancy.
c. given the time elapsed and the LL's actions (DIY) he has accepted the property condition without making a claim for any damage.

Thanks again all. I will hopefully have an update in the near future.

Fosterdog

How many years have actually passed with all of this? Did T2, the son, live there with T1 or just move in after her death?

trevormax

Fosterdog: T2 lived at the address from the start with T1 and other family but until T1 passed away, was just living there and was not on the tenancy agreement.