ESA - Wrong Overpayment Details

SueDerbyshire

Hi, this is a long story but Ill keep it as short as I can.

I currently claim ESA, support Group, I am unable to work due to health problems and this will not change, anyway, when I first claimed back in 2010 I explained on my claim form that I receive a pension from my old employer and therefore got stopped a percentage of my ESA, which is correct.

In 2015, I received a letter stating that I had not been sending in my new pension amount each year, I did not realise I needed to but now know I should have, I have no problem with this even though I have since been informed that I should have received a reminder letter each year but the default date on the system was 1/1/70 and I therefore wasn't receiving any reminders.

At the end of 2015 I received a letter for an appointment to the job Centre to discuss my entitlement, I was not worried at all because it was all above board. I left that meeting in tears as I realised I was being investigated for an over payment of nearly £2,500. The investigator said that firstly I had 2 pensions, not correct, also I owed for money I should not have received, the over payment. I went home,cried and tried to work out what I had done wrong.

That's the main part of the story, after meeting the investigator again with proof, I was able to show that I had only 1 pension and that my pension increase during the period they mentioned did not even increase by £2,500 or anywhere near this amount. The investigator was lovely, completely on my side and sent back a reply explaining my evidence.

Since then I have rang numerous times to rectify the problem and constantly getting told they will look into it and get back to me, which usually took 4 months or so, each time being told the same thing, I still owed nearly £2,500. At the beginning of this year, I spoke to a lady who finally agreed with me and said she would talk to the right department and get back to me, she did the next day and said it will now be sorted, I would receive a new letter with the right amount, about £200 and an opportunity to say whats the best way for me to pay this new amount, great I thought, just took 18 months but finally its sorted.

How wrong was I, last Tuesday, whilst away from home, I checked my ESA payment and I was £73 short for the 2 weeks. I rang ESA and got told I owe the full amount still and they are taking £73 out of my money every 2 weeks. I was fuming, got told someone will ring me back within 3 hours, they didnt, rang the next day, even more angry and got told another person would ring me the next day, she did and yet again agreed with me and said she would speak to the department concerned, explain what they have done wrong and ring me back Monday to clarify that I would not be stopped £73 out of my money again. Yep, I received no phone call Monday, I gave her until Wednesday and rang again, went through it all again and got told that the team leader will ring the department direct, then ring me straight back, obviously, I have not received a call back. When I got back home, I had 2 letters, both dated 22/9, stating the payments will be reduced by £73, my first payment would be 29/9, less than a weeks notice by the times the letter would have dropped through my door, how can they justify that little notice.

I am now in a position of wanting to take this further. The stress they have put me through is unbelievable, which just adds to my health issues. Can anyone kindly advise me as to who I can speak to, I need to get this resolved once and for all, it's been over 2 years now and I am no closer to resolving this.

So sorry about the long winded text. Thank you for any help you can throw my way.

Sue

pmlindyloo

My best advice is to book an appointment at CAB who will telephone them on your behalf and, with your permission, raise this as a social policy issue.

If you cannot do this for any reason then contact your MP today and ask them to intervene on your behalf.

SueDerbyshire

Thank you for your reply, it is really helpful. I feel I have given them plenty of time to resolve this now.
Just one other thing, what do you mean by a social policy issue?

suzy_g

Good luck sue let us know how this goes with the mp

xylophone

Write.

In your letter, set out the sequence of events as above.

Raise a formal complaint.

Take a copy and send special delivery.

If no action within ten days, go to your MP's surgery with a copy of the letter.

TELLIT01

xylophone wrote: »

Write.

In your letter, set out the sequence of events as above.

Raise a formal complaint.

Take a copy and send special delivery.

If no action within ten days, go to your MP's surgery with a copy of the letter.

In the situation stated by the OP, this is the unofficial advice I, and many of my colleagues, would have given to a claimant too.

Regarding reminders, it would certainly be helpful if they were always sent out but DWP is under no obligation to send them. There is an obligation on the part of the claimant to inform DWP of any change of circumstances and that is stated when the claim starts. Not remembering that it is necessary is not a defence, although in this instance the OP isn't attempting to dispute their error.

pmlindyloo

SueDerbyshire wrote: »

Thank you for your reply, it is really helpful. I feel I have given them plenty of time to resolve this now.
Just one other thing, what do you mean by a social policy issue?

An overview here:

http://www.maidstonecab.org.uk/sites/maidstonecab.org.uk/files/The%20Story%20of%20Influence.pdf

dippy3103

Did you have a second pension which was paid as a lump sum as it was such a small amount? I have seen those cause data matches. Or do you get a spouses pension. Or have you another pension which you have not claimed yet?
Ask them what details they have of this alleged pension to see if it’s possible to work out what happened.

You have had very poor service - go to your MP & ask them to take this forward for you

Alice_Holt

At risk of repetition (and in no particular order):

1) Get advice from your local CAB / advice agency;
2) Ask your MP to intervene on your behalf;
3) Launch a complaint - https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions/about/complaints-procedure
4) Request a Subject Access Request, so you have all the paperwork to hand - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-request-for-personal-information

epitome

In 2015, I received a letter stating that I had not been sending in my new pension amount each year, I did not realise I needed to but now know I should have,

You were told that you have to when you made the claim, and everytime you changed an address or a bank account they would have reminded you.

I have no problem with this even though I have since been informed that I should have received a reminder letter each year but the default date on the system was 1/1/70 and I therefore wasn't receiving any reminders.

"should have" is a bit vague, yes the computer system is designed to send out letters each year, sometimes more often, and this is at the most a courtesy reminder to you, and to the DWP processing staff. But the lack of any reminders being sent does not absolve you of your duty to inform of any changes.

I was able to show that I had only 1 pension and that my pension increase during the period they mentioned did not even increase by £2,500 or anywhere near this amount. The investigator was lovely, completely on my side and sent back a reply explaining my evidence.

Good.

Since then I have rang numerous times to rectify the problem and constantly getting told they will look into it and get back to me, which usually took 4 months or so, each time being told the same thing, I still owed nearly £2,500. At the beginning of this year, I spoke to a lady who finally agreed with me and said she would talk to the right department and get back to me, she did the next day and said it will now be sorted, I would receive a new letter with the right amount, about £200 and an opportunity to say whats the best way for me to pay this new amount, great I thought, just took 18 months but finally its sorted.

Good. Would have been better..if she had asked the Decision Maker to call you, but whatever.

How wrong was I, last Tuesday, whilst away from home, I checked my ESA payment and I was £73 short for the 2 weeks. I rang ESA and got told I owe the full amount still and they are taking £73 out of my money every 2 weeks. I was fuming, got told someone will ring me back within 3 hours, they didnt,

The person was wrong...it is not 3 hours anymore it is 24 hours for a call back now

Rang the next day, even more angry

Best not to get angry.

and got told another person would ring me the next day, she did and yet again agreed with me and said she would speak to the department concerned, explain what they have done wrong and ring me back Monday to clarify that I would not be stopped £73 out of my money again.

ok

Yep, I received no phone call Monday, I gave her until Wednesday and rang again, went through it all again

You could have insisted on a 1 hour phone back.

and got told that the team leader will ring the department direct, then ring me straight back, obviously, I have not received a call back.

That's because the agent and the team leader both did not follow correct process, they should have sent a handover requesting a call back, and given the circumstances they could have said "I will get you a call back within 1 hour" but if they did not offer, you could have insisted that it was a call back within 1 hour that you wanted.

When I got back home, I had 2 letters, both dated 22/9, stating the payments will be reduced by £73, my first payment would be 29/9, less than a weeks notice by the times the letter would have dropped through my door, how can they justify that little notice.

Because the law allows them to put deductions on your claim, and when they do a letter is sent, there is no minimum notice period.

I am now in a position of wanting to take this further. The stress they have put me through is unbelievable, which just adds to my health issues. Can anyone kindly advise me as to who I can speak to, I need to get this resolved once and for all, it's been over 2 years now and I am no closer to resolving this.

Here is what to do in the short term.

Phone ESA tomorrow and ask for a 1 hour escalation call back from the ESA office. If they make any sounds of not wanting to do that for you, just say (calmly and politely),,,"I insist that you send a handover for a 1 hour escalation call back about my pension overpayment amount.....will you do that for me now?" If they say anything other than "yes" take their name and their office location, and ask to speak to their manager. Then do the same with the manager.......and ask for the call back to be from "ESA Maintenance - other" I wouldn't accept "third party deductions department" as I would say that department will not be able to help, they would pass the handover on to maintenace though.

Something you need to remember...although you spoke to someone last Wednesday and they agreed with you and said it will be sorted out... The cogs take a long time to turn, it depends if the ESA decision has been changed yet to £200, If it hasn't been changed then first a Decision Maker must change the decision. If it has already been changed then they will have to email Debt Management and ask them to stop making deductions from your ESA and to refund you the money, or put it towards the £200 that you do owe.

And although you are getting a call back within 1 hour...give them at least 2 hours before chasing them up again and don't phone them from the number you are expecting a call on.

So...when you get your call back you ask...
Q. Has the Decision Maker changed the Decision from £2,500 to £200?
Q. Has Debt Management been informed to stop the deductions? When were they requested to do this?

If the Decision Maker has not changed the Decision yet...ask to speak to the Decision Maker within 1 hour.

Once you have had confirmation that Debt Management has been informed of the change to the amount being recovered....you can *then * and *only then* phone debt management to ask them how long it will take them to stop deducting from your ESA.
DWP Debt Management contact centre
Telephone: 0345 850 0293
Textphone: 0345 604 6697
Calling from abroad: +44 (0)161 904 1233
Monday to Friday, 8am to 7:30pm
Saturday, 9am to 4pm


In the long term....you could make a written complaint, things that you might want to ask on your next call... to put in your complaint...are (think what date was it you saw the 2nd investigator)...

• What notes has the 2nd investigator left on your record (obviously on or around the date of your 2nd contact with him/her) in "L.M.S." " J.S.A.P.S". or on "C.A.M".(unlikely) and what does the note say?
• What subsequent notes have been made on the subject since then?

In my complaint, I would make reference that there is a lack of communication between the 2nd investigator and the ESA decision Makers department or between the DM and the Maintenance team. I would make reference to the call you made last Wednesday, when the team leader said they would ring the department. It may sound as though they were helping you but that team leader should have sent an escalation handover and told you they had done so, and then called the ESA office like they said they would,,,, to do one without the other is not acceptable. I only have what you have typed...so I don't know if actually she did send a handover aswell as phoned them.

SueDerbyshire

Thank you so much for all the advice. I will take on board all of it and reply when I have more time but in the meantime, I just wanted to update you.

I rang ESA yesterday, before reading your replies, was told that a new balance had appeared on my file, it wasn't easy to find but there nevertheless. The new figure of £273.12 still had against it payments of £73.10 a fortnight until December 2018, which would make it a massive over payment on my behalf! He couldn't work out what had happened and would get a manager to ring me within 24hrs.

So this morning, I got a phone call from someone I had spoken to before who stated that I only actually owe a few pounds and although the debt department now know this, they can not stop the deductions of £73.10 until the decision maker has informed them of the new over payment amount, if any! She was unaware of what the £273.12 was but will look into it. I will receive a phone call in a few days to confirm what the situation is now, I can not wait to get this resolved.

I informed them that I am putting in an official complaint and have spent all afternoon writing up all the facts, via a timeline of events. I have kept all letters and logged all calls down on paper so although it has taken a while, at least I have the evidence of what they have put me through.

I will come back on here tomorrow and reply to all your valid points, I have had enough of the computer for one day.

Thank you again for your help,

Sue