Claiming Tax Relief on money spent on electricity for business trips in company car

singhini

Hi


I just discovered that it maybe possible to claim for money spent on charging my hybrid company car.


I just found this on the GOV . UK website:

Using a company car for business
You can claim tax relief on the money you’ve spent on fuel or electricity for business trips in your company car. Keep records to show the actual cost of the fuel or electricity you’ve bought or used.


The link I found is:
https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/business-mileage-fuel-costs


my question is how do I calculate how much money I have spent? (I have no idea, I just come home from work and plug it in and in the morning unplug it and drive). I've only had the car just under 2 weeks and so I know which days I've charged it for business mileage but I don't know what I have spent each time its plugged in charging.


Its a BMW 330e and I use the three pin charger lead that comes with the car (I don't have a home wallpod charger, I just use a regular wall socket).


Anyone got any ideas or experience?

Tom99

Does your employer give you an allowance per mile eg 11p or something? If so you could only claim tax relief if your fuel costs are higher.

00ec25

as above, surely as a company car holder your company must pay something towards the cost of the business journeys you do in it?

singhini

Hi


No, its their car i.e. a company car and they give me a credit card to buy the petrol (I pay them 14p per private mile which are set out in the MHRC Advisory Fuel Rates: AFR). and I pay HMRC company car tax due to the car being a benefit in kind.
Basically its a good old fashioned company car but the one difference is that I charge it at home with electricity which allows me to do the first 20 miles on electricity before it switches to using petrol.


I pay for the electricity (my employer doesn't pay me for the electricity nor provides me the electricity)


The weblink from Gov . com specifically mentions company cars and money I have spent on either fuel or electricity and specifically states I can claim tax relief (If I was buying petrol it would be straight forward i.e. I would keep the petrol receipts and from these you can calculate how much money was spent an thus tax relief would be 40% of this amount [or 20% if I was a basic rate tax payer]). However I don't have any receipts to show how much ive spent on electricity.


Sorry for long post and apologies if I'm not clear.

sheramber

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates/advisory-fuel-rates-from-1-march-2016

These rates apply from 1 September 2017. You can use the previous rates for up to one month from the date the new rates apply.

......................

Hybrid cars are treated as either petrol or diesel cars for this purpose.

singhini

I suppose I could stop charging the car and thus it doesn’t cost me anything and so there’s nothing to claim (I stopped charging the car at the weekends when my colleague pointed out its costing me double (he said don’t charge it Friday night for use on Saturday and Saturday night for use on Sunday) as this would mean me paying twice for private mileage i.e. I would be paying my electricity supplier for the electricity and then I would be paying my employer 14p per mile as its private mileage).

I could just claim 40% tax relief on 45p per mile using the HMRC Mileage allowance Payments (MAP) rates, however the MAP rates are used when its MY car and ive paid for the fuel (also its 45p on the first 10,000 miles and then 25p thereafter).

I could try calculate what it costs me to charge the car:
It’s a 3.7kw car and take 5 hours to charge and it costs me 9p per kwh so that would be 3.7 x 5 x £0.09p = £1.67p (however I don’t have a receipt to prove it).


I sent an email to HMRC with links to their website and screenshot yesterday but I haven't heard anything yet (too eager me thinks).


I asked my colleague how he intends to claim the tax relief when it comes to the end of the tax year next march and he said hes using the kw x hours x kwh price method and just going to enclose a copy of his annual electricity bill with his self assessment.

singhini

sheramber wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates/advisory-fuel-rates-from-1-march-2016

These rates apply from 1 September 2017. You can use the previous rates for up to one month from the date the new rates apply.

......................

Hybrid cars are treated as either petrol or diesel cars for this purpose.

Hi


Thanks, I will take a look now (apologies I was writing my second post when you posted your response)


I will take a look at your link now

singhini

Hi
I think these are the rates my employer uses to charge me for private mileage i.e. the 14p I mentioned in my previous posts (although it looks like the rate was only 14p for June, July and August and from September its 13p now so I will point this out to my employer that they should be charging me 13p per private mile and not 14p and that they should update the private mileage form we use: so thanks for the link Sheramber).


Their own website contradicts itself:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates/when-you-can-use-advisory-fuel-rates
Rates are only to be used when I use MY own car for business miles or when I need to pay my employer for private mileage.


Yet this link clearly states the rates are used when an employee uses a company car https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates/advisory-fuel-rates-from-1-march-2016


I will wait to hear from HMRC

00ec25

so your company does pay for your business mileage

you have a fuel card, you purchase fuel for both business and private use and the company pays the card bill in full. So the company had paid, in full, for your business mileage and you have nothing left to claim in respect of that fuel. You then reimburse the company for your private use (using the approved mileage rate) and therefore you do not incur a taxable benefit as your company has not paid you for any private use

how can you differentiate between business mileage done using the fuel paid for by the company and the business mileage you do using the electricity you paid for yourself? I cannot see how you can do so, particularly as you say the charge only lasts 20 miles, so presumably in many cases will really only "cover" your commute, not your actual business use?

sheramber

singhini wrote: »

Hi
I think these are the rates my employer uses to charge me for private mileage i.e. the 14p I mentioned in my previous posts (although it looks like the rate was only 14p for June, July and August and from September its 13p now so I will point this out to my employer that they should be charging me 13p per private mile and not 14p and that they should update the private mileage form we use: so thanks for the link Sheramber).


Their own website contradicts itself:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates/when-you-can-use-advisory-fuel-rates
Rates are only to be used when I use MY own car for business miles or when I need to pay my employer for private mileage.


Yet this link clearly states the rates are used when an employee uses a company car https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates/advisory-fuel-rates-from-1-march-2016


I will wait to hear from HMRC

Your first link states for using a company car not your own car

The rates only apply when you either:

reimburse employees for business travel in their company cars
require employees to repay the cost of fuel used for private travel
You must not use these rates in any other circumstances.

singhini

00ec25 wrote: »

so your company does pay for your business mileage

you have a fuel card, you purchase fuel for both business and private use and the company pays the card bill in full. So the company had paid, in full, for your business mileage and you have nothing left to claim in respect of that fuel. You then reimburse the company for your private use (using the approved mileage rate) and therefore you do not incur a taxable benefit as your company has not paid you for any private use

how can you differentiate between business mileage done using the fuel paid for by the company and the business mileage you do using the electricity you paid for yourself? I cannot see how you can do so, particularly as you say the charge only lasts 20 miles, so presumably in many cases will really only "cover" your commute, not your actual business use?

Hi, im a salesman with no fixed office so as soon as i leave my house its business mileage.
I agree with you about "how can you differenciate between buiness miles done using fuel paid for by the company and the business miles using the electricity" i cant (other than the car runs out of elecricitty after 20 miles and then has no choice but to use fuel. As in the case today where i did 253.4 miles. Obviously all the electricity got used up as its maximum range is 20 miles). However when i go to a local customer the whole journey might only be 16 miles (which would all be on electric and thus my employer has used no fuel but i have paid for the whole journey myself as its all be done on electricity (so im out of pocket in this example).


I went to this link designed for employers and entered that the car belonged to the employer, that the employee pays to charge the car, and that the employee does both business and personal mileage and it confirms that the employer does not need to pay tax or NI, however the empoyee might be able to claim tax relief on the business miles travelled (i.e. the whole point of this thread)
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-electric-company-cars/y


Also ive just spent the last few hours looking at websites to try and calculate how much its actaully costing me to charge the car each night and different websites are giving me different calculations.


One site said it was simply the battery size x kWh cost (so thats 7.6kW x £0.12354p = £0.68p each night)


Another website mentioned the amps, the volts, the number of hours it took to charge the car and the KwH price per hour (so something like 12amps x 240 volts / 1000 x 5 x £0.12354p = £1.78p)


So is it £0.68p or £1.78p




Also another website said that i dont have to pay my employer for private mileage if that mileage has been done using electricity (and this had been confirmed by HMRC), but how do you prove it was electricity used and not fuel for those private miles
http://www.tmtaccounting.co.uk/blog/electric-company-cars-tax-adds


Its bonkers, its not been thought out properly by the government.


So I can claim tax relief on the cost of the electricity used on business mileage but i need to keep records to show the actual cost incured by me but i cant, and theres no way of knowing if i did actually charge the car. Furthermore HMRC dont require me to pay my employer for private miles that were done using electricity i paid for myself but again theres no way of knowing if its electricty or fuel that was used.


Ive concluded its best i dont bother to charge the car, that way i havent spent any of my own money and thus theres nothing to claim (also if there was something to claim it wouldnt be the whole amount but just the tax relief i.e. 40% of the amount).


if there are any physcists out there perhaps you ould explain how i calculate what it costs me to charge the car and perhaps you could also tell the government that people wont bother to charge their company cars because its pointless - if i charge my car and do business miles i cant prove it. If i charge my car and do private miles im not required to pay my employer for those private miles but again i cant prove it and if i do pay my employer for private miles done using electricity i paid for then i have paid for those miles twice; once to my employer and also to the energy supplier!