Executor of estate might be stealing money?

mcoliver88

Hi All,

I am looking for some advice, but first let me give you a quick background.

My grandad passed away over a year and a half ago from my mums side of the family, which he appointed two executors of his estate. My Uncle (Dads side), who is also a solicitor and my Cousin (Mums Side). My Grandad had a large estate, which included a lot of money tied up stock and shares.

The day after my grandad passed away his computer, which he used to manage his stocks and share accounts was removed from his house by my cousin (The executor). He made a special trip from up north to down south to come and get it, which no ones know why?

My cousin has recently claimed that a lot of these stocks and shares were actually practice trading accounts and no real money was invested. However I know my grandad very well and I know that he had hundreds of thousands tied up in these accounts, as we use to discuss these often when he was alive.

My Uncle who is dealing with the estate too as a favour to the family, has not got as heavily involved due to him doing it for free, which is understandable.

Before my grandads death, my cousin started up his own company, which he had to remortgage his house and take out a large loan to get the company started, however from family conversations 3 months after the death of my grandad, the loan has been cleared, the house is now mortgage free.

A lot of the beneficiaries (Me being one of them) think that he has stolen a large amount of money from the estate (Not sure how) and stuck it through his company. However I am not sure where to start looking.

I have emailed my uncle, to find out if there is any truth to the stocks and shares account, but how easy would it be to hide an account and destroy all the records of that account, even from him? If my grandad had all his username and passwords on that computer, how easy would it have been to close the stock accounts and withdraw all the money without anyone noticing?

Any advice would be great.

poppystar

Obviously none can say exactly what has gone on but as far as removing the computer is concerned I would have thought that was fairly normal. The executor has to trace all accounts and it may be that there is correspondence on there that would help. I would certainly do that were I an executor. Even if I could not access online accounts there may be records or spreadsheets used by the deceased that would help in tracking where all the money is.

Beenie

You cannot just claim a practice trading account, and expect beneficiaries to accept it.

Ask for details of the log-in so that other beneficiaries can take a look ( a decent executor would feel obliged to give this info in the first place -without asking).

If the log-in is provided, you can easily check that the accounts were ‘dummies’ as claimed.

Browntoa

Your uncles a solicitor , he should know how to deal with it , that's what the probate office is for

Sarastro

Is it a private limited company? The Companies House Website will have information on the company including annual returns and shareholders statements of capital (they are legal, public documents). These might identify large Director's Loans made to the company, or other inflows. If you know an accountant who would be willing to take a look then they could help you translate the numbers.

I have to say I would have taken the laptop as well if I were executor; that seems pretty standard. As Executor, he can close your Grandfather's accounts (I assume he would have to) but I'm not sure where the money get's transferred to - i.e. can it be transferred directly to the Executor's private bank account??

If you are a Director of a limited company you can make loans to the company to use for anything e.g. keeping up with expensive bank loan repayments.

Margot123

...."The day after my grandad passed away his computer, which he used to manage his stocks and share accounts was removed from his house by my cousin (The executor)....."

There is a clue here that there may be something amiss. Until Probate has been granted (which would have taken approx. 6 weeks at least), no one has the capacity of executor to the deceased's estate. The house should have been made secure, insured, etc, but no possessions should have been taken unless placed into secure storage such as a bank. but that would normally apply to smaller high-value items such as jewellery.

Yorkshireman99

Margot123 wrote: »

...."The day after my grandad passed away his computer, which he used to manage his stocks and share accounts was removed from his house by my cousin (The executor)....."

There is a clue here that there may be something amiss. Until Probate has been granted (which would have taken approx. 6 weeks at least), no one has the capacity of executor to the deceased's estate. The house should have been made secure, insured, etc, but no possessions should have been taken unless placed into secure storage such as a bank. but that would normally apply to smaller high-value items such as jewellery.

Not correct. The executor is appointed by the will and can act immediately to secure estate property. Removing a valuable item like the computer would be a wise move. Howver 18 months is a long time to obtain probate. If the estate is as big as the OP suspects then IHT might well have been payable.. Has the OP checked to see if probate has been obtained and got a copy of the will?

Margot123

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Not correct. The executor is appointed by the will and can act immediately to secure estate property. Removing a valuable item like the computer would be a wise move. Howver 18 months is a long time to obtain probate. If the estate is as big as the OP suspects then IHT might well have been payable.. Has the OP checked to see if probate has been obtained and got a copy of the will?

This is not what my solicitor advised when I was appointed executor of a will. He said that had I done anything other than make sure property was safe, then I could have been held personally liable. He was adamant that I should do nothing until the will was proven by probate. Maybe he was over-cautious.

poppystar

Margot123 wrote: »

This is not what my solicitor advised when I was appointed executor of a will. He said that had I done anything other than make sure property was safe, then I could have been held personally liable. He was adamant that I should do nothing until the will was proven by probate. Maybe he was over-cautious.

But certain information needs to be collected before probate forms can be completed. Information which may well these days be held in electronic form. So the taking of a computer to aid this is no different to the taking away of a bundle of paper financial documents.

eddyinfreehold

Before you become worried or suspicious of anything underhand going on, you need to check what chain of events has taken place. One assumes there was a valid will in place as executors have been appointed.

Prior to probate, at an early stage, someone will have to have registered the death and obtained either a death certificate or an interim certificate if the Coroner ordered an inquest. One assumes this will have been done by the executors. After that, all the usual suspects will have to be informed of the death using a copy of the certificate.....utilities, pensions, insurance, banks, building societies etc. plus all stocks, bonds, NI&S, funds etc etc. Those funds will then be frozen and cannot be cashed in as the estate is 'in administration.' If there is sufficient liquid capital, a bank or building society will probably allow the cost of the funeral to be paid from the estate. The next stage is to obtain a statement of account of the value of all investments at the date of death and have any property valued by a local surveyor (including chattels, valuables etc). Any property should be made secure, in insurers and local authority informed, and adequate buildings and contents insurance cover sorted.

It will take several weeks, if not months for all the statements of investments to be obtained. When the executors are satisfied they have chased everything down, accounted for all outstanding debts etc., then the tax forms are submitted including any payment for IHT necessary. Around this point the executors will HAVE to involve an independent solicitor whereby they must all sign an oath as to their identity and capability against their names on the original copy of the will. Without this, probate cannot be granted. Once HMRC are satisfied you have paid an appropriate sum of IHT (if liable) then they will then issue a code number which is essential for you to apply for a grant of probate along with the will etc.. Once you have probate only then can any investment be cashed in. You are unlikely to have finished your business with HMRC at this point as with large or complicated affairs they check in greater depth....this can take many months or years as I well know myself.

I struggle to see how your cousin has done what you fear without the collusion of the other executor. He would not be able to act on his own at the oath stage and any bank or fund would demand evidence of the identities of all the executors before even releasing information. They are all paranoid about money laundering.

The death of my father will have been around the same time as your grandfather. HMRC are not finished with us yet and the estate is not wound up.

My first port of call would be to find out if probate has been granted and whether there is a will. This is easily found online for a small fee. The gross value of the estate will be logged on the grant of probate.

Yorkshireman99

Margot123 wrote: »

This is not what my solicitor advised when I was appointed executor of a will. He said that had I done anything other than make sure property was safe, then I could have been held personally liable. He was adamant that I should do nothing until the will was proven by probate. Maybe he was over-cautious.

That is simply wrong! How can the executor apply for probate without investigating the assets and liabilities? If there is a property then the executor needs to make sure it is insured and deal with all sorts of other things. Effectively the grant of probate enables the executor to gather the assets in and eventually distribute the estate.