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5 x PCNs for Parking - Own allocated residential bay
ViperX
Posts: 7 Forumite
Hi All,
I need some advice. I have received 5 tickets over the span of 20 days which I would be challenging all the way to the end as I don’t feel I’ve done anything wrong here. I’ve read all newbie stickies and most (if not all) of the own/allocated space threads on this forum.
I live in an apartment block with a secure gated car park. I am a tenant and the apartment comes with its own allocated numbered parking bay where I’ve been parking for the last 5 years displaying a permit issued to me by the Estate Agent who got it from the landlord who subsequent acquired it from the Building Management Company (Please note that these permits do not have an expiry date on them. It simply comes with the building logo and residential parking permit written on them) The building management company has contracted a PPC to manage misuse of the parking space with signs/warning all over the car park.
Within the last month I have received 5 parking charge notices on my leased vehicle’s windscreen regardless of the residential permit clearly displayed….. Reason for ticket “ failure to display valid permit” At first I thought it was a mistake by the PPC, or someone playing a joke or some misunderstanding which a simple phone call to the PPC or building management will resolve. But I get one ticket after another.
So I call the PPC..............
They inform me that I am NOT using a valid permit and it’s a photocopy of the original. I inform them that I’ve been using the exact permit for the last 5 years and why has the permit suddenly become invalid. (btw this is same PPC contracted by the building management since I moved in) I am simply told to appeal if I feel the ticket is unfair and they’ll take it from there. I appeal online.
So I call the building management company.............
I call the building management company to assist and get the tickets cancelled and provide me with an appropriate permit if the one I am using it not acceptable. I explain that I am displaying the permit that was issued to me by the Estate Agent and recently started getting ticketed. I am however repeatedly told that it’s my fault and I’ve not read the signs (irrelevant) and followed their rules and should know what an original parking permit issued by them should looks like? Really? Should I? Btw the permits I’ve seen on my neighbours vehicles either look the same as mine or a tad bit different in colour. They refused to cancel the tickets and suggest I speak with the estates agent and maybe they should pay for the tickets. They then literally put the phone down on me regardless of me making every effort to be polite, civil and calm and just needing some support on this matter.
So I call the estate agent.....................
As expected they tell me they don’t manage the building or the PPC and only people to help are the building management company and they should cancel the tickets. They also tell me that they are provided with permit from the landlord who I should be getting in touch with as well to help. My estate agent is a lovely chap and he also suggested I follow the appeal process and that I’ve done nothing wrong and am in the right.
So I call the landlord..............
Following to conversation with the landlord, they also call the building management company and the BMC are rude to them as well however the landlord pays for a new parking permit for me which I am soon to receive any day now. The landlord however has since informed me that the building management company are adamant not to cancel the tickets. My landlord is going through some difficult times at present. Under normal circumstances I would hold them fully responsible to rectify this on my behalf however I’ve decided to deal with this myself going forward and engage them again if absolutely necessary.
Some additional info:
My Tenancy agreement has no mention of displaying a ticket. It’s a generic contract agreement written by the Estate Agent with the below:
“Property with Parking Space (where applicable)
[FONT="]Not to service, repair or carry out any other work on cars, motorcycles, vans or other commercial vehicles at the Premises apart from general maintenance from time to time, to a vehicle of which the Tenant is the registered keeper” The only other thing I received with the contract regarding parking was the code to enter the gated car park and the allocated bay number on a hand written peice of A4 paper which I still have, and the parking permit itself in a plastic vallet. [/FONT]
I also had the landlord confirm and there is nothing they could find around displaying permits but only the below on their contract:
“The tenant’s vehicle must be parked within the boundaries of No.X and it must be a private vehicle”
The PPC in question is a valid member of BPA. Their sign says:
“CONTRATUAL AGREEMENT. You are parking in a 24 Hours Protected Parking Zone
This is private land for Parking of Motor Vehicles.
By Parking Outside of the Marked or Allocated Bay and/or Not clearly Displaying a Valid Permit which must be displayed in windscreen of the vehicle or authorised by the site management will result in the Driver Agreeing to pay a Parking Charge Notice of £100 reduces to £60 if Full Payment is received within 14 Days.
Since I spoke to the PPC, they slapped another ticket on my vehicle even though I politely asked them to put a hold on further tickets on my vehicle as I am a resident and liaising with the building management company to resolve this and parking in my own allocated bay. They do not have to worry about the space being misused or taken advantage of by non-residents.
I also find this situation a bit strange as couple of a years ago I received a ticket from this PPC on my vehicle parked in my bay because someone had called them to report an unauthorised vehicle parked there. I had to send the building management pictures of my vehicle parked in the bay with the permit displayed and got the landlord to confirm that I am indeed the rightful tenant. The pictures I sent (which I still have) has the same permit on it clearly visible. They cancelled the PPC because of the misunderstanding and the permit displayed didn’t seem to be a problem back then. hmmm
There have also been situations in the past where I’ve not displayed the permit. 3 instances in total since I’ve lived here and I paid the PPC the £60 without putting a fight but in this instant I think they've pushed my buttons where they have issued me tickets regardless of the permit being displayed.
After reading all the threads and going through the forum, I should not have paid them in the past or shouldnt even be oblidged to display a permit as there is no mention of this in my contract or even the one that the landlord has. From what my Estate agent suggested, the PPC was brought in at a later stage but he could be wrong.
I fully appreciate I am dealing with people who will not reason with me.
I really want to deal with this head on and would even like to go as far as claiming the previous tickets I've paid this PPC. Is that possible even possible? I also feel I should be writing to the PPC minus all the politeness and letting them know that they will not get a single penny out of me.
Any thoughts or advice?
I need some advice. I have received 5 tickets over the span of 20 days which I would be challenging all the way to the end as I don’t feel I’ve done anything wrong here. I’ve read all newbie stickies and most (if not all) of the own/allocated space threads on this forum.
I live in an apartment block with a secure gated car park. I am a tenant and the apartment comes with its own allocated numbered parking bay where I’ve been parking for the last 5 years displaying a permit issued to me by the Estate Agent who got it from the landlord who subsequent acquired it from the Building Management Company (Please note that these permits do not have an expiry date on them. It simply comes with the building logo and residential parking permit written on them) The building management company has contracted a PPC to manage misuse of the parking space with signs/warning all over the car park.
Within the last month I have received 5 parking charge notices on my leased vehicle’s windscreen regardless of the residential permit clearly displayed….. Reason for ticket “ failure to display valid permit” At first I thought it was a mistake by the PPC, or someone playing a joke or some misunderstanding which a simple phone call to the PPC or building management will resolve. But I get one ticket after another.
So I call the PPC..............
They inform me that I am NOT using a valid permit and it’s a photocopy of the original. I inform them that I’ve been using the exact permit for the last 5 years and why has the permit suddenly become invalid. (btw this is same PPC contracted by the building management since I moved in) I am simply told to appeal if I feel the ticket is unfair and they’ll take it from there. I appeal online.
So I call the building management company.............
I call the building management company to assist and get the tickets cancelled and provide me with an appropriate permit if the one I am using it not acceptable. I explain that I am displaying the permit that was issued to me by the Estate Agent and recently started getting ticketed. I am however repeatedly told that it’s my fault and I’ve not read the signs (irrelevant) and followed their rules and should know what an original parking permit issued by them should looks like? Really? Should I? Btw the permits I’ve seen on my neighbours vehicles either look the same as mine or a tad bit different in colour. They refused to cancel the tickets and suggest I speak with the estates agent and maybe they should pay for the tickets. They then literally put the phone down on me regardless of me making every effort to be polite, civil and calm and just needing some support on this matter.
So I call the estate agent.....................
As expected they tell me they don’t manage the building or the PPC and only people to help are the building management company and they should cancel the tickets. They also tell me that they are provided with permit from the landlord who I should be getting in touch with as well to help. My estate agent is a lovely chap and he also suggested I follow the appeal process and that I’ve done nothing wrong and am in the right.
So I call the landlord..............
Following to conversation with the landlord, they also call the building management company and the BMC are rude to them as well however the landlord pays for a new parking permit for me which I am soon to receive any day now. The landlord however has since informed me that the building management company are adamant not to cancel the tickets. My landlord is going through some difficult times at present. Under normal circumstances I would hold them fully responsible to rectify this on my behalf however I’ve decided to deal with this myself going forward and engage them again if absolutely necessary.
Some additional info:
My Tenancy agreement has no mention of displaying a ticket. It’s a generic contract agreement written by the Estate Agent with the below:
“Property with Parking Space (where applicable)
[FONT="]Not to service, repair or carry out any other work on cars, motorcycles, vans or other commercial vehicles at the Premises apart from general maintenance from time to time, to a vehicle of which the Tenant is the registered keeper” The only other thing I received with the contract regarding parking was the code to enter the gated car park and the allocated bay number on a hand written peice of A4 paper which I still have, and the parking permit itself in a plastic vallet. [/FONT]
I also had the landlord confirm and there is nothing they could find around displaying permits but only the below on their contract:
“The tenant’s vehicle must be parked within the boundaries of No.X and it must be a private vehicle”
The PPC in question is a valid member of BPA. Their sign says:
“CONTRATUAL AGREEMENT. You are parking in a 24 Hours Protected Parking Zone
This is private land for Parking of Motor Vehicles.
By Parking Outside of the Marked or Allocated Bay and/or Not clearly Displaying a Valid Permit which must be displayed in windscreen of the vehicle or authorised by the site management will result in the Driver Agreeing to pay a Parking Charge Notice of £100 reduces to £60 if Full Payment is received within 14 Days.
Since I spoke to the PPC, they slapped another ticket on my vehicle even though I politely asked them to put a hold on further tickets on my vehicle as I am a resident and liaising with the building management company to resolve this and parking in my own allocated bay. They do not have to worry about the space being misused or taken advantage of by non-residents.
I also find this situation a bit strange as couple of a years ago I received a ticket from this PPC on my vehicle parked in my bay because someone had called them to report an unauthorised vehicle parked there. I had to send the building management pictures of my vehicle parked in the bay with the permit displayed and got the landlord to confirm that I am indeed the rightful tenant. The pictures I sent (which I still have) has the same permit on it clearly visible. They cancelled the PPC because of the misunderstanding and the permit displayed didn’t seem to be a problem back then. hmmm
There have also been situations in the past where I’ve not displayed the permit. 3 instances in total since I’ve lived here and I paid the PPC the £60 without putting a fight but in this instant I think they've pushed my buttons where they have issued me tickets regardless of the permit being displayed.
After reading all the threads and going through the forum, I should not have paid them in the past or shouldnt even be oblidged to display a permit as there is no mention of this in my contract or even the one that the landlord has. From what my Estate agent suggested, the PPC was brought in at a later stage but he could be wrong.
I fully appreciate I am dealing with people who will not reason with me.
I really want to deal with this head on and would even like to go as far as claiming the previous tickets I've paid this PPC. Is that possible even possible? I also feel I should be writing to the PPC minus all the politeness and letting them know that they will not get a single penny out of me.
Any thoughts or advice?
0
Comments
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Firstly, who is the PPC ???
You will now be on the "mugs" list because you pay them.
That must now stop
If the area is behind a secure gate, what problems has their
been to allow parking vermin in ???0 -
Read the NEWBIES thread atop page 1. Contains a lot of info you need to know.0
-
In which case he is a mug. He should not need to pay for permission to park in his own space (or to allow a tenant to do so). Tell him not to. Also inform him, politely, and the management company that you don't appreciate being harrassed by a company you have no contract with and no relationship with (i.e. the PPC) and you'll be holding them accountable for any recompense that may result.landlord pays for a new parking permit
If it's a lease car, make sure you engage with the PPC for each ticket in order to avoid them contacting the lease company (who wil likely sting you for ridiculous fees.0 -
Also inform the landlord that the PPC is attempting to interfere with your leasehold rights to quiet enjoyment of your property, a possible offence under the Landlord and Tenants Acts and that you expect him/her to take action to sort this out.
Tell him that he signed the AST so is responsible for honouring its contents.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Firstly, who is the PPC ???
You will now be on the "mugs" list because you pay them.
That must now stop
If the area is behind a secure gate, what problems has their
been to allow parking vermin in ???
I'd rather not name any individuals or companies as per the sticky thread "Posting on the Parking Board – your help please"
Yes I am aware I am on the PPC's "mugs list" We all make mistakes and you live and you learn and Yes this stops now. I intend to not only challenge the current 5 x PCNs but also the previous ones I have paid to the PPC. I have all the relevent proof of payments etc.0 -
The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »In which case he is a mug. He should not need to pay for permission to park in his own space (or to allow a tenant to do so). Tell him not to. Also inform him, politely, and the management company that you don't appreciate being harrassed by a company you have no contract with and no relationship with (i.e. the PPC) and you'll be holding them accountable for any recompense that may result.
If it's a lease car, make sure you engage with the PPC for each ticket in order to avoid them contacting the lease company (who wil likely sting you for ridiculous fees.
I am just surprised at why the management co isnt intervening and putting a stop to this as I clearly have been displaying a permit I was provided with . I find it ridicoulous that I'd be spending a great deal of time and effort dealing with the likes of PPC, POPLA, potentially a small claims court. How is this even my fault?
Thanks - Yes I read on the newbie post about this as well so will be informing the leasing company first thing monday morning.0 -
Forget the ones you've paid. No chance you'll get any money back. Concentrate on the current tickets.I intend to not only challenge the currect 5 x PCNs but also the previous ones I have paid to the PPC
You can name the PPC. As you'll see on virtually every other thread, the PPC is named. The more info we have the better advice we can giveI'd rather not name any individuals or companies as per the sticky thread0 -
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Just wanted to provide an update on this.
Took over a week for the Management Co to post the new permit since LL made payment for a new permit. During this time I got another ticket issued. I now have 6 in total. Landlord and letting agent got involved now but management co insist its a matter between me (tenant) and the PPC to deal with. They will not instruct PPC to cancel tickets.
PPC have rejected my initial appeals and suggested I either take this up with who ever issued me the photocopied permit which was the letting agent (who got it from the LL, issued by the management co) or appeal to POPLA. I have 5 POPLA codes. Not appealed the 6 PCN just yet.
LL confirms having enquired about contractual agreement with the management co with regards to displaying parking permit and management co suggested it may not be in the actual contract but a letter was sent out to all owners information them of parking regulations. That obviously makes it a legally binding contract.
Whats the most affective approach to take right now. I doubt my LL can convince the management co to get the tickets cancelled and I dont want to put pressure on the LL due to their personal circumstances.
Should I?
1. Send a full on letter to the management co and/or PPC highlighting why I feel the PCNs are unfair. My patience has ran out trying to get this resolved in a civilised pragmatic fashion so it wont be most polite letter.
2. Letter from a solicitor to both management co and/or PPC.
3. Follow the POPLA appeals process0 -
LL confirms having enquired about contractual agreement with the management co with regards to displaying parking permit and management co suggested it may not be in the actual contract but a letter was sent out to all owners information them of parking regulations. That obviously makes it a legally binding contract.
Ermmm, no it doesn't. If he owns the space then he does not need a permit because the rights under his lease take precedence, and I doubt his lease mentions a charge for parking. He has primacy of contract.
1. - Yes, but a Letter before Claim, in th style shown in Daniel san's thread.
2. - Yes if you can afford it, but no if not. Because you can't claim that cost back.
3. - Yes we always suggest POPLA. Have you admitted who was driving in EVERY appeal?PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
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