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Can i still appeal or shall i pay?

Guys

I got a ticket at a train station (29th August) and didn't do anything waiting for the penalty letter. I got the penalty notice to keeper through on 6th October, but reading on these forum, i should have appealed within 26 days!

Can i still appeal?
«13

Comments

  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 17 November 2017 at 4:02PM
    yes , appeal as KEEPER (NOT AS OWNER OR DRIVER)

    YOU HAVE 28 DAYS TO APPEAL THE POSTAL NOTICE , so WELL DONE for ignoring any windscreen ticket

    as bylaws apply , the TOC have 6 months to take the owner to magistrates court (unlikely)

    so string it out as long as possible

    the NEWBIES sticky thread will help you
  • Hey guys, I submitted my appeal using the template (newbie thread, blue text) and got the following response - any thoughts on how i should respond?

    Thank you for you recent online submission.

    We refer your letter of <<date>>, which we are treating as a formal section 10 Notice (“the Notice”) under the Data Protection Act (“the Act”). Please accept this letter as our formal acknowledgement and response to the Notice. You have provided no justification for the Notice. The processing of your data is warranted. In any event, section 10(1) of the Act does not apply in circumstances where Schedule 2, paragraphs 1 to 4 of the Act are met, accordingly we are permitted to continue to process your data at this stage. If this is not clear, we suggest you seek legal advice.

    Please also note that the template letter you have used does not relate to this matter as the outstanding matter on our system is a Penalty Notice issued under Railway Byelaw 14, not a Parking Charge Notice.

    Photographic evidence available to view on https://www.ipaymypcn.net demonstrates that there is clear signage on site, these signs state that all vehicles must be parked within the confines of a marked bay or designated parking area. Your vehicle was in breach of these terms.

    The balance of £124.00 remains payable on our systems for this account, please refer to the back of our letters for the payment options available to you. If this matter remains unpaid, it will be left to progress accordingly and further fees may be incurred.
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    Amusingly thta is their template response....

    The entire point for a Railway Penalty notice is to get to 6 months byelaw time out

    So you repsond, towards the end of their dates given, and corespond again - asking them precisely what byelaw they contend was breached

    Then when they respond, again ask them another question - this time, what authority have they been granted to create and enforce penalty charge notices, given this power was not enacted to anyone by the Secretary of State?

    And so on

    They can do NOTHING her e- whil they can threaten Magistrates court, they get nothing if you lsoe - it goes to the Crown. Theyre essentially only capable of offering a "contract" to not pursue toa place they lose money at

    They could threaten to clamp, but again cannot do so for an unproven debt

    There is no current system of penalty charge notices that are in force at railways. They just dont actually exist, legislatively speaking. Its all a con

    Your ONE duty is to get you over the 6 months deadline. After that they can go whistle.
  • Thanks for the response. I am happy to draw it out, but a couple of question on your suggested approach

    1. They already states its Byelaw 14 - not sure why I should ask them again about which byelaw?

    2. Also in my original letter (blue letter from the newbie thread) i asked them for a POPLA code. Am i still entitled to POPLA considering its a railway byelaw notice and should i insist on having one from them?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,787 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    1. It can add another week to the target of 6 months. You can play letter tennis to eat away at the deadline for prosecution.

    2. In theory ‘yes’. You haven’t told us which PPC this is, bit if it’s Indigo then there’s been some shady dealing with the BPA to omit byelaw cases from the POPLA appeals procedure. It’s not clear what the DVLA stance is on this, but if the PPC chasing you is Indigo, you have the right to query the withholding of your POPLA entitlement with the DVLA. David Dunford is the manager to raise this query with.

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    edited 12 November 2017 at 1:22PM
    As the Count states, you have them by the short and curlies, there is nothing they can do to make you pay.

    Why ask them which bye-law? Because it uses up time and parking outside a bay is not a byelaw offence, so you ask them which byelaw they refer to. You keep the ball in the air for six months and then it is game over.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Thanks guys, will keep you posted!
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,731 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 12 November 2017 at 3:19PM
    You will not get POPLA.

    Do as nosferatu1001 posted, and I would also ask what they mean by ''progress accordingly'' (to where) ''and further fees may be incurred'' (how much, on what excuse, and payable to whom?):
    So you respond, towards the end of their dates given, and correspond again - asking them precisely what byelaw they contend was breached

    Then when they respond, again ask them another question - this time, what authority have they been granted to create and enforce penalty charge notices, given this power was not enacted to anyone by the Secretary of State?

    And so on

    They can do NOTHING here - while they can threaten Magistrates court, they get nothing if you lose - it goes to the Crown. They're essentially only capable of offering a "contract" to not pursue to a place they lose money at

    They could threaten to clamp, but again cannot do so for an unproven debt

    There is no current system of penalty charge notices that are in force at railways. They just dont actually exist, legislatively speaking. Its all a con

    Your ONE duty is to get you over the 6 months deadline. After that they can go whistle.

    They already states its Byelaw 14 - not sure why I should ask them again about which byelaw?
    Ask them to explain where byelaw 14 specifically creates a penalty about bay markings, and ask for a full copy of the byelaws.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • NothingExpert
    NothingExpert Posts: 53 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 17 November 2017 at 5:47PM
    Going with this - let me know if any issues
    Thank you for your response which was rather unclear and vague to the point where I need a number of clarifications before we progress any further.

    You state that if "the matter remains unpaid that this will progress accordingly". Can you provide clear and specific description on what the full process is alongside with timelines and who and which authorities are involved. Please note that there is no reference to this process in the "Penalty Notice" that I received as the Keeper.

    In your more recent email correspondence you threaten that "further fees will be incurred". Once again, can you provide clear and specific description as to what the further fees to be incurred are. Specifically how much are these fees, for what grounds you are charging me for them and to whom are they payable?

    Furthermore you claim that the Penalty Notice is issued under Railway Byelaw 14. Can you please explain to me where specifically Byelaw 14 allows for a penalty with regards to bay markings? I'd be grateful if you can provide me with a full copy of the relevant byelaw.

    I look forward to hearing from you

    They didn't give me any indication as to when they want a response to the email, so i assume 21 days. As i received the email on 1 Nov, i will send my email response to them over the weekend.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    you have a standard 28 days to appeal a postal notice, as I said in a previous reply

    so string it out as long as possible, by appealing around day 25 , or in your case the 26th november
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