Small claims court

steampowered

This sounds like a complete mess. It may be worth going to get guidance from a solicitor.

sunflower888 wrote: »

The case is in the county court but in the small track, is that the same as the small claims court? I thought it was.

Yes, it is exactly the same thing. It is the same court whether your claim is allocated to the small claims track, fast track or multi track. It is just the procedure that is different.

I think it should have got assigned higher track really.

If the case was assigned to a higher track, the loser would be paying the winner's full legal costs. And you'll also be paying legal costs if there are unnecessary court hearings or you waste people's time through getting the process wrong. That can be a recipe for disaster when LiPs are involved.

does this mean the value tops out at £10,000 or can it be higher, e.g. 3x£10,000.

No, there is no top out. The judge has discretion. Allocating a claim to small claims track is a decision about process, not a limit on the final award that can be made.

But the judge has decided to backdate it in years too, which didnt occur to me. But I didnt realise it was capped in total in this way which seems hugely unfair.

I don't understand what you are complaining about here.

Anyway, if the judge has made a decision at a hearing, that's it. If you don't agree with it you can appeal - but appeals are tough to win.

If you are trying to say that the judge dropped hints at some sort of pre-trial hearing, it may be that you need to make a formal application to amend your defence and counterclaim.

G_M wrote: »

But again, the court officials will advise.

Unfortunately the Op can't ask the judge and court officials won't give legal advice, even on something as basic as track allocation.

sunflower888

Im confused.... it's me who won the case, next step is remedy and whether I can get any of my costs back. I think its been a complicated case and should have gone to the higher track.

Legal fees are now about £11k, which is not "small" to me.

What are the main grounds for getting them back? The other side have been unreasonable in many ways. Like giving me the draft bundle thursday evening asking me to get it back by noon the next day, and it was 11 pages long. She also sent me their costs sheet for £10k to intimidate me two days before the hearing.

da_rule

Weren’t you awarded costs at the end of the hearing? Did you submit a costs schedule? Did you actually ask for/claim costs as part of your claim/counterclaim?

kaya

if you have won the judge would have awarded you the amount you claimed for, if you claimed for expenses on top this would also be awarded to you as you should have added it onto your claim, the other party that lost will be issued with a judgement against them for the amount you claimed and ordered to pay it to you directly, if they fail to pay within the allotted time you either go to the court bailiffs if the amount is under 5k or elevate it to the high court and send the "can't pay we'll take it away" mob round, you can also have a charging order placed against their property or apply to bankrupt them if they fail to pay, all this sounds like they would probably be better off just paying up if they are trying to sell their property

Comms69

sunflower888 wrote: »

Im confused.... it's me who won the case, next step is remedy and whether I can get any of my costs back. I think its been a complicated case and should have gone to the higher track.

Legal fees are now about £11k, which is not "small" to me.

What are the main grounds for getting them back? The other side have been unreasonable in many ways. Like giving me the draft bundle thursday evening asking me to get it back by noon the next day, and it was 11 pages long. She also sent me their costs sheet for £10k to intimidate me two days before the hearing.

Did you apply for costs?


If not why not?

Comms69

kaya wrote: »

if you have won the judge would have awarded you the amount you claimed for, if you claimed for expenses on top this would also be awarded to you as you should have added it onto your claim, the other party that lost will be issued with a judgement against them for the amount you claimed and ordered to pay it to you directly, if they fail to pay within the allotted time you either go to the court bailiffs if the amount is under 5k or elevate it to the high court and send the "can't pay we'll take it away" mob round, you can also have a charging order placed against their property or apply to bankrupt them if they fail to pay, all this sounds like they would probably be better off just paying up if they are trying to sell their property

It's £600 to escalate it to the high court, not £5,000 (well that's the lower limit I should say, the cost is actually a lot less)

steampowered

sunflower888 wrote: »

Im confused.... it's me who won the case, next step is remedy and whether I can get any of my costs back.

What do you actually mean? I do not understand what question you are asking.

Are you saying that the judge has made a decision on liability, and that there is to be a separate hearing regarding remedies unless an agreement is reached between the parties?

I think its been a complicated case and should have gone to the higher track.

Legal fees are now about £11k, which is not "small" to me.

If the case has already been decided, it is far too late to complain about the track. If the case was heard under the small claims track process you are going to have to live with the small claims track rules.

What are the main grounds for getting them back? The other side have been unreasonable in many ways. Like giving me the draft bundle thursday evening asking me to get it back by noon the next day, and it was 11 pages long. She also sent me their costs sheet for £10k to intimidate me two days before the hearing.

As a general rule, you do not get awarded legal costs in the small claims track I'm afraid, aside from a limited number of small items such as travelling expenses (see https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.14).

Legal costs would only be awarded in small claims track where the other side was demonstrated to have 'behaved unreasonably'. However this is at the judge's discretion and only applies in a small number of cases.

If there is to be another hearing, you would need to ask for costs at the end of that hearing.

If there is no other hearing, it will be difficult to ask for costs now I'm afraid. You could attempt to seek an order for costs using form N244 with an attached witness statement, but I wouldn't rate your chances of success.

david1951

sunflower888 wrote: »

Legal fees are now about £11k

You had legal counsel? Have they kept you informed of the process? Given you your options?

sunflower888 wrote: »

The other side have been unreasonable in many ways. Like giving me the draft bundle thursday evening asking me to get it back by noon the next day, and it was 11 pages long. She also sent me their costs sheet for £10k to intimidate me two days before the hearing.

Doesn't sound too unreasonable in a small claims hearing.

With respect, you seem a bit out of your depth. Did your legal counsel (if you had one) advise you that you would not be able to recoup their costs if the case is heard on the small claims track?

G_M

If you have £11K legal costs you must ave been reseiving professional legal advvice, which begs the questtion as to why you are using the frum to ask somehat basic (and confused/confusing) questions.

Why has your legal adviser not informed you how to claim costs etc?

sunflower888

Hi, Sorry for the absence of update, a lot going on. Yes there was a second hearing which was for remedy etc.

I was a LIP, though at various points had to get legal advice, and in the October hearing used a barrister because, as you note, I felt out of my depth. Yes he said the SCT not likely to get costs back, but I thought where they have refused to mediate, broken court orders, various other things there was enough to be deemed "unreasonable costs". Also, where they "withdrew their claim by consent" within 3 minutes of the hearing.

However I did this as an LIP, but the judge was different and very very dismissive of me, and basically awarded nothing in costs, not even the court fees, travel etc, it was like he just wanted to close the file and it be off his desk, really unfair.

So I did make the request for costs, but not in the claim form. I submitted a schedule with costs information and for my witness.

The other thing that surprised me was the other side, even though they lost on all counts were allowed to ask for their costs, is that correct, normal? It seems bizarre that they could even ask.

Also, for me, and am I wrong in thinking this, where someone submits a claim they know they are guilty of and then within 3 minutes of the hearing the judge (first one) directs them to withdraw it by consent, as they had accidentally written in one of the emails to me, "open correspondence" that they were encroached, so case over. But in the mean time I have had to spend months defending it and costs. Surely that's unreasonable to bring a claim you are guilty of?