MOT exempt

AdrianC

50Twuncle wrote: »

This also means that road tax will be free as well !!

The free historic VED changed from pre-1973 to over 40yo a couple of years ago.

What about I buy an old Jaguar - fit a new engine and gearbox and then slowly replace all of the body panels - suspension components, brakes, exhaust etc etc - when does the pre-78 car become new - \and subject to MOT and Road tax ?

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles
No change to that.

MOT exemption has a much lower threshold of modification before it no longer applies. The requirements are in draft, but the consultation for that has already been linked to ^ up there.

dacouch

DELLBOY wrote: »

Try insuring one if you dont mot it ......

My van which is four years old is MOT exempt and I have no problem Insuring it.

Norman_Castle

50Twuncle wrote: »

This also means that road tax will be free as well !!
What about I buy an old Jaguar - fit a new engine and gearbox and then slowly replace all of the body panels - suspension components, brakes, exhaust etc etc - when does the pre-78 car become new - \and subject to MOT and Road tax ?

A long time after it becomes worthwhile to avoid MOT tests and a non existent tax.

Why are you so concerned by this? The amount of 40+ year old vehicles is tiny with the vast majority being hobby vehicles covering very limited annual mileage.

50Twuncle

Norman_Castle wrote: »

A long time after it becomes worthwhile to avoid MOT tests and a non existent tax.

Why are you so concerned by this? The amount of 40+ year old vehicles is tiny with the vast majority being hobby vehicles covering very limited annual mileage.

What next ?
An exemption from motor insurance for over 40 year old cars
And then an exemption from Fuel duty ?
Sorry - but the present government is going down the completely wrong track with car tax - why should an old banger that puts out unlimited amounts of CO and pollutants, get a waiver from tax - whereas a new (virtually non polluting (105g/km) - suddenly go from £20 to £140 ?
The government claims that it is trying to reduce CO emissions - but by doing this - they prove otherwise !
They have completely removed the incentive for people to go green.....

oldagetraveller

Those grapes must be very sour.

50Twuncle

oldagetraveller wrote: »

Those grapes must be very sour.

Wait - did I not see you driving your 50 year old Rover 2000 towing an equally ancient caravan at 20 mph on the M4 last week - with clouds of smoke coming from the exhaust ?
With an inane grin on your face ..... because you felt that you had won (something) ...

Norman_Castle

50Twuncle wrote: »

They have completely removed the incentive for people to go green.....

How likely is it that hoards of motorists now be buying 40+ year old cars? There are plenty of new £0 VED cars for motorists to "go green".

onomatopoeia99

50Twuncle wrote: »

What next ?
An exemption from motor insurance for over 40 year old cars
And then an exemption from Fuel duty ?
Sorry - but the present government is going down the completely wrong track with car tax - why should an old banger that puts out unlimited amounts of CO and pollutants, get a waiver from tax - whereas a new (virtually non polluting (105g/km) - suddenly go from £20 to £140 ?
The government claims that it is trying to reduce CO emissions - but by doing this - they prove otherwise !
They have completely removed the incentive for people to go green.....

You do realise that on average half the pollution caused by a car is created in its construction and destruction, not in its lifetime of use, so scrapping a 10 year old car and buying a new one much less environmentally friendly than keeping a fifty year old car going?

As for removing the third party insurance requirements, think about it for a moment so you can understand how there is no comparison.

Joe_Horner

50Twuncle wrote: »

[...] why should an old banger that puts out unlimited amounts of CO and pollutants, get a waiver from tax - whereas a new (virtually non polluting (105g/km) - suddenly go from £20 to £140 ?
[...]

You really don't understand vehicle emissions very well, do you? That's obvious from the way you conflate CO, "other pollutants", and CO2 all together.

Firstly, the vast majority of vehicles this will affect can't emit "limitless" quantities. Anything first used after, iirc, Aug 1975 has limits of 4.5% CO and 1200ppm unburnt hydrocarbons.

In practice any car in good mechanical conditon will be well below those limits - typical from my own experience over the years would be around 1.5% - 2% CO and under 200ppm hydrocarbons. And that's at idle, which is the most inefficient and highly polluting condition for an engine. As soon as load and speed increase, those figures drop significantly.

The CO2 they emit (which car tax is based on) has absolutely nothing to do with how "clean" the engines are. It is only a measure of how many MPG you're getting. So your modern car that claims 105g/km of CO2 will only achieve that if you're getting a real world 62.4mpg overall.

If - in the real world - you find you're getting a more believable 40mpg overall because of conditions, driving style, and all the other factors that come into effect, then your real world emissions will be 164g/km. That is exactly the same amount of CO2 that an "old, polluting" car will emit if it's also giving 40mpg.

A large number of the cars this will affect comfortably average 40 or more MPG now because of the type of use they're put to and the way they're driven.

In fact, technically, the new car will emit very slightly more CO2 than the "old, polluting" one for the same MPG because the catalytic converter on the new one is taking that CO and hydrocarbons that the old car throws out of its tailpipe (see first paragraph) and converts them to CO2 as well.


eta: A for lifetime CO2 emissions, old cars have long ago "paid for" the emissions of producing several now ones and continue to save overall emissions by recycling the majority of parts - it's much better environmentally to repair and re-use a part than melt it down and recycle.

They also mostly use much smaller tyres - there's a huge energy input in tyre manufacture and it's a hell of a lot less for, say, a 155/13 typical of the '70s than it is for a modern 225/16 or bigger! It's also much less dead rubber to enter the waste chain when they're worn out.

AdrianC

50Twuncle wrote: »

Sorry - but the present government is going down the completely wrong track with car tax - why should an old banger that puts out unlimited amounts of CO and pollutants, get a waiver from tax - whereas a new (virtually non polluting (105g/km) - suddenly go from £20 to £140 ?

You may have missed the subtle detail that the average new car now is in the £30 VED band. What do you think that's done to total government receipts from VED?