Private Parking ticket (ANPR) after 22 days

sherkhan29

Hi,

I've recently received a parking ticket (via ANPR) in the post. The incident occurred end of August while we were visiting Manchester and this was in a retail park where we didn't realise it was a pay and display. We were there only for an hour or so and only in 1 shop, we were in a rush as well to get somewhere. I can't go back to check if the signage was appropriate etc as we live 200+ miles away, so can't really argue on signage. Anyway, having read through the forums and checking on the laws, I wanted to clarify a couple of things if anyone had a similar experience or suggestions on this appeal.

I've received this NTK on 25/9 dated 20/9. The contravention occurred on 28/8 which is about 22 days before the issue date of 20/9. The schedule 4 states that for ANPR, the private company must contact DVLA immediately and then write to the keeper within 14 days. I was going appeal on this law as they are out of time to enforce the penalty, is this correct? The company states that I will have the discounted option to pay £60 if I appeal within 14 days of the issue date which is 20/9 (though I got it only on 25/9!).

However, when I go to the first stage of appeal via the private parking company website, there is no option to choose from in 'reason for appeal' for this scenario and I couldn't find the option 'other' as well. There is a text box to explain the situation, add evidence etc, but the reason is a drop down selection.

I was going to appeal stating that the law hasn't been followed and there has been a breach in time limit. Assume I am not obliged to name the driver in the appeal?

As I understand, as we have a time limit in which to pay (14 days then 21 days etc) or else it escalates, so does the parking company, which should enforce this within 14 days as per government rules. I guess the only reason they can reject the appeal is that they may come back with excuses around delays with DVLA or internal issues but I believe this shouldn't be the keepers/drivers problem? Would anyone think its worth appealing on the time limit lapsed basis? I wouldn't mind paying the 1 hour parking which was missed, but should we give them this option?


Appreciate any help/suggestions on this case....

Redx

you did not mention the name of this PPC , which is important

they do NOT have to follow POFA2012, but their case is harder against the keeper if they fail POFA liability , as you correctly say

DO NOT reveal who was driving , stay as keeper because that is what K in NTK means

they have every right to pursue the driver (if known)- so do not blab

which PPC is it ?

what are the options for appealing on their site ?

do they offer the option to post an appeal by Royal Mail ?

have you read the NEWBIES sticky thread ?

sherkhan29

Hi, thanks for the quick response. The PPC is Excel Parking member of IPC. The options for appealing mentioned in the letter is online at myparkingcharge.co.uk. It doesn't say anything about posting an appeal. The reason is mandatory online and its a dropdown list to select from which doesn't have this delay in sending/receiving the invoice as a reason. It has about 20 other reasons.


The letter says, appeals must be made 21 days beginning with the date of the issue so 20/9 however if we want to retain the discounted payment option it must be done within 14 days from 20/9. It says decision will be made within 28 days and if unsuccessful, they will provide details to enable me to appeal to the IAS.


Just another query, why would they not have to follow POFA2012? as I thought its a rule set by the government for all Private companies? my appeal was only on this basis. Sure, will not reveal the driver, Thanks.. Wasn't sure what to do about the reason not being listed online and also wanted to check if anyone knew what grounds they could reject the appeal on, could they just say they don't have to follow POFA2012?


Yes, been through the newbies thread as well.

The_Deep

POFA is not mandatory, but if they do not follow it they cannot invoke keeper liability, they can only pursue the driver. If they do not know who that is, they are stymied.

Redx

I asked you to state what those DROPDOWN OPTIONS were for appealing , YOU HAVE NOT LISTED THEM AT ALL

I already told you that POFA2012 is not mandatory, the NEWBIES thread also tells you this , so because it is not MANDATORY they can ignore it , BUT this means they can easily lose in court when a driver is not identified (as I already clearly stated earlier)

prrof of this can be seen quite clearly in the LAMILAD court case threads including parking pranksters blog about it

you really need to answer questions that are asked if you want bespoke advice , we are not mind readers, sorry to say

The IAS is a waste of space, the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you this and not to bother with it

EXCEL can and DO turn down appeals, these companies usually turn down any appeal , on any grrounds they like , they are sc@mmers and make no money out of accepting appeals

even if you were dead and had been cremated a week ago, the appeal woul be turned down !!! they are after money , greed and avarice drive their business model, pay for yachts and cars and expensive holidays etc

this is the real world of this unregulated sc@mmers paradise industry

write to your MP and complain , to try and get it changed

meanswhile, please ANSWER the other questions I asked, ie:- ALL of them , not half

thank you

Coupon-mad

Wasn't sure what to do about the reason not being listed online and also wanted to check if anyone knew what grounds they could reject the appeal on, could they just say they don't have to follow POFA2012?

Yes, the NEWBIES thread tells you that. Some firms never use the POFA.

Excel reject ALL appeals we've ever seen - thousands over the past decade. NEVER allowed one that we've seen, at appeal stage, ever. You need to know what you are dealing with ex-clamper fat cats:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713705/The-parking-ticket-fat-cats-one-s-chum-Prezza-two-drive-Aston-Martins-Meet-men-ve-millions-motorists-misery.html

Don't choose any drop-down reason that says who was driving and DO NOT imply who parked. Yes you have a complete defence as keeper, but it won't stop them dragging you to a small claims hearing to finish it (and we win).

Complain to your MP about this industry. Wrong, isn't it?

sherkhan29

Hello, thanks for your responses..

apologies, missed that question on appeal options.. there's a lot of reasons and I've logged into the site and found this.. they are categorized under headings. this is the full list available, some of these seem to be repetitions as well! don't think I can select either of these.. and also if they will decline which I'm expecting to too.. I thought the IAS might overturn it but based on the responses, it seems like that they wouldn't either..

Valid ticket
- I had a pay and display ticket but may have entered the wrong or incomplete registration number
- I have a valid pay and display ticket that was clearly displayed
- My vehicle is permitted to park and is on a vehicle exemption list

Contravention not occur
- I did not park for the stated time
- I did not receive the charge notice on my vehicle
- I was authorised to park
- I was not sent the charge notice in the post
- I was stopping to answer a phone call
- I was stopping to check directions
- my vehicle was not in the car park when the contravention occurred
- there was no signage at the carpark indicating any restrictions

not owner
- I had not purchased this vehicle at the time the contravention occurred
- I had sold the vehicle before the contravention occurred
- this vehicle has never been owned by me

stolen
- the number plate was cloned
- the vehicle was stolen or taken without my consent

PCN paid (this asks you to complete the details for the PCN payment made if its already been paid)

disabled
- blue badge holder but forgot to display the badge
- blue badge holder and badge was on display at the time of parking
- blue badge belongs to a passenger who was with me at the time of parking

charge notice not received
- I did not receive the charge in the post
- I was not aware that I had incurred a charge notice
- the charge notice was not fixed to my vehicle

breakdown
- I had a flat battery
- I had a flat tyre
- I ran out of fuel
- my vehicle was broken down at the time and I was waiting for recovery

medical
- I am a medical professional and was attending a medical emergency
- I needed to make an urgent stop for the toilet
- I or my passenger had medical emergency and had to stop
- I was attending to an infant/child in the vehicle

Coupon-mad

I thought the IAS might overturn it but based on the responses, it seems like that they wouldn't either.

Categorically no chance. Think 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' re these appeal stages. Avoid the fire. No point, better to face them in court as we've only lost ONE in over a year!

I would use either #1 or #3 of these, to 'appeal' as keeper:

charge notice not received
- I did not receive the charge in the post
[STRIKE]- I was not aware that I had incurred a charge notice[/STRIKE]
- the charge notice was not fixed to my vehicle

..and then you can state that as keeper, you did not receive a Notice to Keeper in the post IN TIME and there was no item purporting to be a 'Parking Charge Notice' on the vehicle either, so Excel have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4. Since there is no lawful presumption that a keeper was the driver, and no evidence has been produced by Excel to help the keeper identify the driver in order to pass the (late received) notice into them, they have no cause of action.

You can put the above as your 'appeal'. It will be rejected. They might quote Elliott v Loake, LOL!

Then ignore till court claim time, or preferably LBCCC stage, as covered in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

sherkhan29

Thanks .. Having looked at the letter again, just realised that the entry photo is clear and has most of the car from the front, however, the exit photo has only just managed to get the number plate at the back and a bit of the tyres. It's extremely blurd and cant really tell the number with this picture apart from 1 or 2 alphabets (if you try hard)!

Coupon-mad

Just be careful not to write about 'me, myself, I' and shoot your toes off by implying who was driving.

Money...MATTERS

I was wondering did you appeal and on what grounds did they reject it?