POA after death - executor and beneficiary

JosephK

My condolences on your loss.

As Yorkshireman said, PoA ceases on death but no-one with an ounce of sense is going to prosecute you for using the card immediately after death. Would only be if continued to use it for your own benefit which obviously you're not going to.

You seem to have next stage in hand - see the bank. Assuming they are on the ball, they will advise re setting up executor account (if necessary), dealing with bills, etc. which should deal with any immediate worry.

Yorkshireman99

Malthusian wrote: »

Who told you that you could be prosecuted for fraud? Given that the country is rife with Ponzi scams and pension scams for which no-one is ever prosecuted, the idea that someone would be prosecuted for using a bank card where no actual loss has arisen is laughable.

You have not gained anything from what you did and no-one has suffered a loss (because the funeral director's bill would have been paid anyway). So the idea that a fraud has taken place collapses at the first hurdle. Fraud Act 2006 S2 (1)(b) and the equivalent clauses of S3 and 4. At worst it is a breach of the bank's Ts and Cs, which is not a criminal offence.

People do say some daft things.

There does not have to be any actual loss. Exposing the bank to the risk of loss is sufficient. In any case there are other offences under the legislation covering misuse of computer systems. Just because the offence my be regarded by some as trivial does not mean an offence has not been committed. Nor does the fact that many bank cards are, it would seem, routinely misused by family memebrs with the cardholder's permission make is acceptable or legal. In the OP's case then they will probably get away with it because the bank is unlikely to want the publicity.

Malthusian

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

There does not have to be any actual loss. Exposing the bank to the risk of loss is sufficient.

True. But that didn't happen either.

In any case there are other offences under the legislation covering misuse of computer systems.

I was taking issue with whichever helpful soul told the OP they could be prosecuted for fraud. If they'd been told they might be prosecuted for "misuse of computer systems" we could discuss the chapter and verse of that Act.

Yorkshireman99

Malthusian wrote: »

True. But that didn't happen either.

I was taking issue with whichever helpful soul told the OP they could be prosecuted for fraud. If they'd been told they might be prosecuted for "misuse of computer systems" we could discuss the chapter and verse of that Act.

It is semantics really. Regardless of what offence(s) may have been committed there is, albeit slight risk of prosecution, the fact that using a debit card that is not yours is an offence not just a breach of the bank's T & C as you suggest. That was what was trying to make as a general point.

Leothecat

Thank you for all your replies.


So I've spoken to the bank and thankfully they were very understanding. Everything I paid out for was funeral related and I have receipts for it all. The bank has agreed to honour it all as I was able to give exact figures of what's to come out.


Also, their policy is that as the current account held under £25k the executors and beneficiaries need only to make an appointment and go in with id and a copy of the will and death certificate to have this paid out - no need to wait for probate to be granted.


What I would say to anyone acting as POA for anyone is, keep receipts and a spreadsheet of all spending. I've not needed it yet but I'm very relieved to have these just in case.

Yorkshireman99

Leothecat wrote: »

Thank you for all your replies.


So I've spoken to the bank and thankfully they were very understanding. Everything I paid out for was funeral related and I have receipts for it all. The bank has agreed to honour it all as I was able to give exact figures of what's to come out.


Also, their policy is that as the current account held under £25k the executors and beneficiaries need only to make an appointment and go in with id and a copy of the will and death certificate to have this paid out - no need to wait for probate to be granted.


What I would say to anyone acting as POA for anyone is, keep receipts and a spreadsheet of all spending. I've not needed it yet but I'm very relieved to have these just in case.

Noted and thanks. The only thing I would say is beware of putting the money in your own account pending paying it out. If disaster strikes then it could then cause problems for your executors. Ask the bank if they can hold the money in an executor’s account instead. Some will do this.