Should I renegotiate offer?

Browny137

Hi all,
I’m interested to hear peoples opinions on whether I should renegotiate my offer on a house after receiving the homebuyers report and property & information form.

Background:
House on market for £400k, IMHO a tad expensive in comparison to similar properties in the area, but my wife and I agreed that this one “ticked all our boxes” so paying slightly more than perhaps it is worth would not be much of an issue in the long run. Offered £380k but accepted vendors counter-offer of £390k. A noteable selling point of the house was that it had been done to a high standard, i.e. nice quality conservatory, kitchen, etc.

Current situation:
There have now been some (fairly minor) things that have come to light after conducting the home buyers report and receiving the property & information form. These include:
* No planning permission obtained for conservatory (required because they have removed an external door and installed central heating).
* No paperwork for recently built conservatory, i.e. no evidence it meets building regs.
* No testing certificates for newly installed electrical works. (Vendor has denied any new electrical installation work carried out since they moved in, despite fairly major remodelling of downstairs of the house, including new kitchen, utility room, open plan conservatory/lounge.)
* No indication or evidence of when boiler was installed and no service history at all.
As I mentioned before, a selling point of the house was that it was finished to a ‘high standard’, which in part persuaded us to offer slightly more than perhaps it was really worth. The vendor has refused to carry out a service on the boiler to prove it is functioning ok, and will not get their house electrically tested either, they will only buy indemnity insurance for the other issues (lack of planning permission for conservatory, no evidence of compliance with building regs for conservatory, no electrical certificates). I am very sceptical that these insurance policies will be worth much to me should any issues arise.

My current opinion is that I will offer £380k in order to account for the extra unexpected risks/issues that weren’t obvious when we initially offered the £390k, including a clearly neglected boiler I can only assume will need replacing soon!

Apologies for the long post, let me know your thoughts!
Adam

davidmcn

If the sellers are refusing to get gas/electric tests for you (which is hardly a standard offering), the next step is for you to ask to send in your own guys to check things - not assume everything is knackered (based on pretty much no evidence as far as I can see) and knock a chunk off the price.


Otherwise all you're really missing here is some paperwork. You (or the sellers) can buy new paperwork if that keeps the box-tickers happy.

Browny137

I agree that usually the seller would not have the gas/electrics tested, but I would expect the boiler to be serviced every year and new electrical installations require testing certificates by law anyway so it shouldn’t usually be an issue.

So I feel it is fair that they pay for any tests to prove these things are satisfactory, as they should have done these in the first place. If I pay for a survey and uncover some issues, should the seller refuse to make allowance for any major issues then I would have wasted even more money.

societys_child

Last conservatory I built, I contacted the council who confirmed PP and BR where not required.
If you want the electrics and boiler testing, that's up to you. As the vendors are currently living in the property I'd trust that they are no problems with either.

You do understand that a boiler service is often not much more than a quick dusting around with a small brush?

davidmcn

Browny137 wrote: »

I agree that usually the seller would not have the gas/electrics tested, but I would expect the boiler to be serviced every year and new electrical installations require testing certificates by law anyway so it shouldn’t usually be an issue.

Well, they haven't had the boiler serviced every year (many people don't, including me!), and they probably can't retrospectively get certificates for the electrics (and what are you doing about the non-recent electrics?). You've seen everything in working order (haven't you?) and your surveyor, despite their bum-covering, will have pointed out anything obviously wrong.

So I feel it is fair that they pay for any tests to prove these things are satisfactory, as they should have done these in the first place. If I pay for a survey and uncover some issues, should the seller refuse to make allowance for any major issues then I would have wasted even more money.

You may feel it is fair, but it is not the norm, and a huge proportion of transactions go ahead with any of this paperwork being produced or scrutinised, and everyone is happy.

gazter

societys_child wrote: »

Last conservatory I built, I contacted the council who confirmed PP and BR where not required.
If you want the electrics and boiler testing, that's up to you. As the vendors are currently living in the property I'd trust that they are no problems with either.

You do understand that a boiler service is often not much more than a quick dusting around with a small brush?

Lack of external doors between conservatory and house plus extension of central heating system means it is no longer a conservatory but an addition to the house and subject to both planning permission and building control. If we can assume the time has passed where these can be enforced, fine, but otherwise those indemnities are an absolute must at the very minimum. Of course if the vendor has the external doors and they can be easily reattached but that won’t help with the central heating.

G_M

No one is going to make you remove the conservatory - so the lack of PP is irrelevant. If you are paranoid, ask the seller to provide indemnity insurance (£100?).

If you're worried about the lack of Building Regs, ask your surveyor to comment on the standard of the build.

I don't know the % of people who service boilers annually (50%?), but many people don't. Indeed some never get a service (my father!).

Yes, on installation there should have been paperwork, but far more useful is an up-to-date inspection report - send in a gas/oil engineer.

Likewise the electrics. £80 for peace of mind will get you a report

Browny137

Interesting to hear so many people don’t have their boiler serviced regularly, fair enough I guess but in this case having nothing to show isn’t good enough for me (yes I know I can pay someone to check it myself, I wouldn’t be concerned if there weren’t other issues too).

Re: Electrics, no I have not seen “everything in working order”, and even then I have seen plenty of cowboy DIY installs that work ok but are not safe.

A structual survey would have cost an extra £500, and as you said it is mostly “bum-covering” anyway so would likely not have given any indication of the build quality anyway.

As for the planning permission, this is the least of my worries really as worst case I will need to install new doors and remove the central heating.

hazyjo

I'm in a similar boat to your sellers.


My solicitor has offered an indemnity policy for the lack of electrical certificate following works when installing my kitchen, lack of FENSA certs for the windows (before my ownership), and for when the wall was removed (before my ownership) between the kitchen and dining room. I did offer to get an electrical report but don't think they're taking me up on it - and I wasn't really under any obligation to provide that.


As above, absolutely no liability to get the boiler serviced and most aren't brand new. If mine was old, I'd refuse too - it's the sort of thing you do yourself when you move in if you want.


No, the indemnity policies won't be worth anything to you really - they're not 'insurance policies' as such, they just protect you against legal claims/negligence. They're not going to pay out if the boiler stops working, put it that way.


You could try to knock some off, but I wouldn't agree if I was the seller. Might be worth a try on the basis of the lack of planning/building regs for the conservatory, but that's prob about it (unless they said the boiler was brand new!).

G_M

It's really up to you to either accept the property as is, or to check its condition, either yourself or via specialists.

If you don't want/need a 'full survey', why not ask a surveyor to check and report on those specific points you are concerned about. No reason not to negotiate a bespoke survey at a bespoke rice.

TBagpuss

As others have said, the boiler service is a personal choice. You can ask thesellersto allow access to the property for your gas safe engineer to check it, at your expense, if you want.

Electrical work - again,you can ask the sellers to allow access for your electrician to carry out an electrical survey - if this shows any major safety concerns then you can negotiate taking into account the cost of putting those right.

If you have concerns about the quality o the build bearing in mind the lack of PP and building regs then get a surveyor to inspect - you can instruct one directly and instruct them specifically to insect the extension and to comment on whether there are any concerns about it.
If there are, then you can negotiate the price based on the likely costs of the remedial work and of obtaining building regs.

Alternatively, you can decide to walk away.

I think boiler service is very much a matter of choice. I do currently get mine done but didn't in my previous property. My sellers, in my current home, claimed they had had theirs serviced regularly but were unable to produce any paperwork to back this up. I had it checked as soon as I moved in, for peace of mind.

With electrical works I had an electrical survey done which identified one potentially dangerous issue, and a couple of more minor ones. I got all of the work done, plus a couple of minor improvements done as soon as I moved in - as I recall it cost about £250 including the original inspection and the extra work I wanted (but didn't need for safety purposes)