PSN - Potentially big trouble

AJP01

Hi All,
Before any replies mentions the *2 newbie thread, i have already read it through it however i am looking for a more personal response.

The Situation: For the past year my car has been parking down the side street next to the gym where there is a wider open space My vehicle is parked from midnight for roughly an hour and half, up until this point It was not known that parking here was unauthorised and had not received any parking notices, however on the 21/09/2017 I received 2 Parking charge notices for the 30th/31st of august 2017 from parking collection services (Other trading name Debt recovery plus) for "unauthorised parking" for the times midnight to1:30am where my vehicle was caught by APNR. with the standard letter of a discounted price of £60 or £100 after 14 days. I have recently seen the sign on the back of one of the buildings warning of APNR cameras and no parking at any times. However before this date I had received no notices.

Because these were my first two parking tickets I panicked and before doing my research I used the companies appeal programme. Obviously now I realise this was a BIG mistake and these are rigged. I am yet to get a reply but I am anticipating the rejection. In the appeal I requested images of my vehicle and tried to be illusive to with regards if I was driving but potentially have used language such as "I" when referring to the vehicle. My appeal was for the tickets on the 30/31st August. My question is now how should I proceed with these two tickets? Should I ignore their reply outright to their response or now I have opened dialogue should I try to postpone, arguably the driver does not have a great defence if the area is unauthorised, although as a customer of the gym it was believed my vehicle could park there and had done for over a year. As it behind various buildings potentially maybe only specific areas are covered by the APNR.

This is just the beginning, I have now received a 3rd ticket for the 5th of September for the same amount and reason as above. I then realised my vehicle may have used the spot for parking another 6 times for the gym over September. This could mean another 6 tickets from the same company resulting in a discounted total of £540, an amount of which they could potentially take me to court over. The creditor is ANPR parking services limited (not sure if these are known for court action or not) As I have not referenced the ticket from the 5th of September I am treating this separately to the 2 PCNS I have appealed.

What I find strange is the inconsistency in the APNR system.

Redx

BPA member so should be appealed within 28 days using the blue text template

PCS are probably providing "back office" services for them

check the BMPA zendesk to see if they take people to court etc

anything that has timed out or failed in any appeal process or anything that has been ignored should be ignored unless you get an LBC or an MCOL within 6 years (initiated by ANPR , not PCS)

so if its past any appeal process or been ignored, post #4 of that NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread is where you would be ( at an impasse )

anything new should be appealed with the blue text template and then popla

anything already appealed will be rejected and a popla code issued, so appeal to popla

do not try to make anything up , stick to the procedures outlined in that NEWBIES sticky thread

ps:- they are not using anpr cctv , not using cctv either , they are using ANPR CAMERAS that take still pictures

and edit post #1 to remove any ideas of who was driving asap , the correct terms are

THE KEEPER

THE DRIVER

Quentin

Don't know why you want personal advice.


The FAQ thread shows you what to do and when. (And how to find out the current state of the creditor's court activity)


Treat each charge separately as you get them - don't reveal who was driving


If the gym is involved with the parking company complain and get them to get these cancelled

Coupon-mad

I agree, these will be easy.

For the ones you haven't appealed yet:

Appeal as keeper using the BPA template appeal, as registered keeper. They've all arrived too late for keeper liability so this will be fun! Don't miss ANY, appeal them all online (I expect PCS offer online appeal) and don't say who was driving if they ask.

For the ones you have appealed, you said you were elusive about who was driving so you can still win each one at POPLA, saying (as part of the usual POPLA appeal stuff) that the NTK was dated/received after day 14. You can say you were an 'occupant of the car' in the POPLA appeal but point out that the driver has not been identified.

NOW edit your first post because it tells us (and anyone from the PPC) who was driving. URGENT!

Umkomaas

If you've read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, you'll know that the initial appeal process almost always results in a rejection, but if the PPC is a BPA operator, the rejection will be the route to a POPLA code, delivered within 35 days of you making the initial appeal.

Fortunately ANPR Parking Services are BPA operators, so once you've got your POPLA codes you'll need to draft appeals for us to look at. You will need to appeal each one separately, but there's no obvious reason from what you've written for them to be different.

For the first 2 tickets, if you've identified yourself as the driver, you won't be able to rely on PoFA. But ideally we'd like to see your appeals to check whether you've actually blown off any toes, or whether we can rescue something for you on the keeper front. If we can't, there's still plenty of other possible appeal points - all detailed in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3, including ready-written templates.

For those tickets you've not yet appealed, you do so using the blue text appeal template from the sticky - separate one for each ticket. Using the template will mean you will not identify the driver and you will then have the full protection of PoFA.

But a note of caution - we would never advise you follow your suggested approach to this. We never condone sinking to the level of the PPCs by using untruths in any statements. Will inevitably blow up in your face, with potentially nasty consequences.

Should I use the "Different driver" reasoning on the ticket from the 5th of September and any potentially following ones, citing that because I had not received a ticket before another driver used my vehicle at these times.

This could mean another 6 tickets from the same company resulting in a discounted total of £540, an amount of which they could potentially take me to court over.

Are ANPR PS litigious?

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/ANPR_Parking_Services.html

HTH

Quentin

AJP01 wrote: »

....., do you think i should appeal the non the appealed PCN soon? or wait until the end of the month? Using the template. .....

The FAQ advises when to submit the initial appeal

AJP01

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I agree, these will be easy.

For the ones you haven't appealed yet:

Appeal as keeper using the BPA template appeal, as registered keeper. They've all arrived too late for keeper liability so this will be fun! Don't miss ANY, appeal them all online (I expect PCS offer online appeal) and don't say who was driving if they ask.

For the ones you have appealed, you said you were elusive about who was driving so you can still win each one at POPLA, saying (as part of the usual POPLA appeal stuff) that the NTK was dated/received after day 14. You can say you were an 'occupant of the car' in the POPLA appeal but point out that the driver has not been identified.

NOW edit your first post because it tells us (and anyone from the PPC) who was driving. URGENT!

@Coupon: I appreciate the reply, do you think i should appeal the non the appealed PCN soon? or wait until the end of the month? Using the template. Thread has been updated.

Update: I have now appealed using the template. the letter itself was sent 15 days after the incident on the 20/09/2017. and received today 22/09/2017. Does this increase my chances of a POPLA appeal? they have quoted section 4 of POFA 2012 in the letter.

Redx

there is rarely any reason to wait to submit a PPC appeal when faced with a postal pcn , so unless you have good reason to delay the appeal, dont delay it

if they failed POFA2012, and if you are not foolish enough to admit to who was driving , then a popla appeal will likely be successful if a KEEPER appeals using non-POFA compliance as one of several appeal points

the peoblem is if a driver admits to being the driver in that initial appeal, making POFA2012 null and void on both sides (irrelevant if a driver admits to being the driver , or if a keeper admits to being the driver)

we tell people not to blab about who was driving for this very reason

AJP01

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I agree, these will be easy.

For the ones you haven't appealed yet:

Appeal as keeper using the BPA template appeal, as registered keeper. They've all arrived too late for keeper liability so this will be fun! Don't miss ANY, appeal them all online (I expect PCS offer online appeal) and don't say who was driving if they ask.

For the ones you have appealed, you said you were elusive about who was driving so you can still win each one at POPLA, saying (as part of the usual POPLA appeal stuff) that the NTK was dated/received after day 14. You can say you were an 'occupant of the car' in the POPLA appeal but point out that the driver has not been identified.

NOW edit your first post because it tells us (and anyone from the PPC) who was driving. URGENT!

Redx wrote: »

there is rarely any reason to wait to submit a PPC appeal when faced with a postal pcn , so unless you have good reason to delay the appeal, dont delay it

if they failed POFA2012, and if you are not foolish enough to admit to who was driving , then a popla appeal will likely be successful if a KEEPER appeals using non-POFA compliance as one of several appeal points

the peoblem is if a driver admits to being the driver in that initial appeal, making POFA2012 null and void on both sides (irrelevant if a driver admits to being the driver , or if a keeper admits to being the driver)

we tell people not to blab about who was driving for this very reason

Thank you, The latest one today is outside of the 14 day period. My concern is that if i have potentially shot myself in the foot on the original appeal dated 30/31 August that this could be used against me on my latest appeal regarding PCN dated 5th September using the blue template. Are they able to do this or must these be treated separately with no assumptions?. thank you

Redx

the latter

each treated separately , no assumptions , each pcn needs to get a dvla database reaction

could be several drivers parking , could have been me driving on one or more of those occasions for the subsequent pcn,s as the original driver may have learned their lesson having received 2 pcn,s already

I know what you are saying , but each one is appealed separately, no assumptions , no using previously obtained data , no using appeals from previous pcn,s

AJP01

Redx wrote: »

the latter

each treated separately , no assumptions , each pcn needs to get a dvla database reaction

could be several drivers parking , could have been me driving on one or more of those occasions for the subsequent pcn,s as the original driver may have learned their lesson having received 2 pcn,s already

I know what you are saying , but each one is appealed separately, no assumptions , no using previously obtained data , no using appeals from previous pcn,s

Thank you, really do appreciate the responses. What sort of position am i in regarding the fact that the PCN was served 15 days after the alleged incident. They have quoted Sec 4.POFA in their PCN letter?.