WARNING - Thieves Bypass Bank Card PINs.

James

Bank customers who have had thousands of pounds stolen from their accounts have been refused compensation on the basis they did not safe-guard their Pin – even though it can be easily bypassed by fraudsters.

At Natwest, £250 was withdrawn from a cash machine and a further £1,800 in an over-the-counter transaction – but the bank refuses to refund the cash. This is despite the fact that it has forwarded CCTV footage of the criminals on to police.

Iain is furious at being labelled incompetent: 'They said I was irresponsible with my Pin number, but I said there is no way that could have happened. I have had the same Pin for six years and haven't written it down anywhere.

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Does anyone know of any instance anywhere whereby a fraud victim has been held responsible for misuse of their signature?

There is an alternative to PINing.

The Card Industry is reluctant to inform consumers that there is such a beastie as a Chip & Signature Card.

Chip and Signature Cars work thus.

Pop the card into the Chip reader. Card is authenticated and a transaction slip is produced for the CardHolder to sign. (NO LIABILITY).

TIP: Don't let the above happen to you. Limit you PIN use to one PIN for one card only. All other cards change to Chip & Signature.

nickyt

My biggest worry is i'm only tiny and when you type your pin number into the machines in shops they are so open that the person behind you can see what your typing.

Where would you stand if you had your card stolen from your bag after the thief seeing your number as you used the silly machines the supermarkets have?

Rafter

Nicky,

As long as you called your bank straight away the cards would be cancelled and you wouldn't be liable.

James,

Sounds as if the thieves deliberately stole this guys cards having found out his pin by shoulder surfing or a dodgy terminal was used to record pin numbers.

However, the bank is right not to refund straight away. Otherwise a fraudster could simply give their card and pin to a mate wearing a false mostache, get them to withdraw the funds while he is with an alibi calling the bank and reporting the card stolen.

Hey presto! They run off with the money and the bank refunds them - what a great scam.

Chip and pin has reduced muggings and fraud losses in the UK by millions.

Chip and Signature that you advocate frequently would reverse this leading to higher costs for retailers, banks and ultimately consumers. It would also lead to an increase in muggings which surely you don't support?

I'm sure 'Iain' will get his money back - particularly if he reported his cards missing straight away.

R.

nickyt

thanks for taking time to reply

TAG

James wrote: »

Does anyone know of any instance anywhere whereby a fraud victim has been held responsible for misuse of their signature?

Actually, as far as Barclaycard are concerned, at the moment AFAWK, they are holding DH responsible for the use of his card in Florida back in July.

Someone 'used' his card and SIGNED for some fuel. Despite the card being locked in our safe in the UK, DH being at work at the time plus he has never even been to the USA.

However, Barclaycard appear happy that as it was signed for then he is responsible. He is appealing/complaining at the moment but as yet we've not heard anything.

Oh and when he first raised the dispute with the transaction Barclaycard FAILED to cancel his card and issue a new one. That only happened, when he phoned for a second time (after receiving a letter stating that Barclaycard were happy that everything was in order) and I told him to get it cancelled.

So we'll see what happens.............

James

nickyt - I'd advise you to get yoursel a Chip & Signature Card right away.

If you had your card stolen and used with your PIN, (before you reported it lost or stolen) you'd be in the same boat as the gentleman who has been held responsible for an £1800 when his PIN was used in Branch.

According to the Banking Code, your card issuer has to prove you were negligent with your PIN. This doesn't appear to be happening, and the person from APACS, who brough you Chip & PIN advises you to keep on at your card issuer. Hmmmm.

As for the case of the forged signature (this is an all time first, beleive me). The card has obviously been cloned (and the PIN not acquired, otherwide the crook would have hit an ATm), then Barclay card should acknowledge this and be able to provide the retailers signed copy as evidence. It wouldn't be your signature and your prints wouldn't be on the transaction slip. You should have nothing to worry about.

As for BarclayCard. If you applied for your BarclayCard online. You wouldn't have received an application form to sign. Therefore BarclayCard themselves may not even have a copy of your signature.

Retailers reading this posting may now be asking. How can BarclayCard issue a chargeback on an alleged false signature.

Rafter is right about the Scam he suggests, which is a major problem for card issuers and decent victims are ending up being treated like criminals.

I do disagree with Rafters views on Muggings. In Swindon recently 50 of Swindons most vulnerable were targetted for the PINs and Cards. ATMs' don't challeng crooks.

Don't take my word. Read the readers comments at the bottom of the 2 artilces in my first posting.

Biggles

nickyt wrote: »

My biggest worry is i'm only tiny and when you type your pin number into the machines in shops they are so open that the person behind you can see what your typing.

I can't see what your size has to do with it. You cover the keypad with one hand and key the number in beneath it with the other. You don't need to see the keys, as the '5' has a 'nipple' on it, so you can locate each key easily.

James

Biggles wrote: »

I can't see what your size has to do with it. You cover the keypad with one hand and key the number in beneath it with the other. You don't need to see the keys, as the '5' has a 'nipple' on it, so you can locate each key easily.

Theory is great, but try it in practice.

Plus there are lots of ways of obtaining PINs.

Biggles

James wrote: »

Theory is great, but try it in practice.

It isn't theory. It is practice. In fact, I practice all the time. ;-)

In supermarkets, ATMs, anywhere my PIN is needed. Once you know where your keys are in relation to the '5', it's second nature.

ShimSham

Biggles wrote: »

It isn't theory. It is practice. In fact, I practice all the time. ;-)

In supermarkets, ATMs, anywhere my PIN is needed. Once you know where your keys are in relation to the '5', it's second nature.

I always cover the keypad while typing in my PIN, but I usually use my purse instead of my had to do the covering.

James

It's really good practice to keep your PIN shielded (If PINs are for you).

But you ou can be as careful as you like covering your PIN and trying to keep it secret but the problem is the Industry itself can't keep PINs secret.

There are so many different ways of acquiring someones PIN it beggars belief.

Unfortunately the victims as per the articles are being held liable for alleged PIN misuse and not much attention is being paid to the Banking Code (which is supposed to protect consumers). But it's just that a code.