Voluntary pay cut

Keviola

Hi,

I'm a substitute teacher in Northern Ireland and have been for 10 years now. During this time I have moved to the top of the pay scale through annual progression. However, due to the budgetary difficulties faced in the public sector recently, I have found that I have become too expensive for schools to hire me. I have asked the Department of Education if I can move back down the pay scales to give myself a better opportunity for work but they have refused to allow me to do this.
Can someone tell me if there is anything I might be able to do to force this issue with them?

Thanks in advance

Guest101

I don't know the system in NI, but if you aren't employed then how can there be pay scales?

glentoran99

Guest101 wrote: »

I don't know the system in NI, but if you aren't employed then how can there be pay scales?

she is employed, as a substitute teacher but you don't get paid unless you work, almost like 0 hour contract

Guest101

glentoran99 wrote: »

she is employed, as a substitute teacher but you don't get paid unless you work, almost like 0 hour contract

Oh I see. Why would they employ her directly rather than via an agency though - that's the bit I don't understand.

sangie595

Keviola wrote: »

Hi,

I'm a substitute teacher in Northern Ireland and have been for 10 years now. During this time I have moved to the top of the pay scale through annual progression. However, due to the budgetary difficulties faced in the public sector recently, I have found that I have become too expensive for schools to hire me. I have asked the Department of Education if I can move back down the pay scales to give myself a better opportunity for work but they have refused to allow me to do this.
Can someone tell me if there is anything I might be able to do to force this issue with them?

Thanks in advance

I'm afraid the answer, if I am understanding your question correctly, is no. Grades are associated based on prior experience and skills. These pay scales are agreed by the Government and by the unions to protect salaries and prevent employers from driving down wages for everyone. They are not going to vary those for one person, because that would risk tearing up every negotiation and policy ever written and bring an all out action. You can't force the government to abandon national rates and policies.

I'm not familiar with NI, but if it is anything like the UK, the reason why you are expensive is because you are a supply teacher, who are generally more expensive than direct employees. I know a lot of supply teachers who do this work precisely because they get better pay than teachers on the books. You could solve the problem by getting a job directly instead of doing supply work?

glentoran99

Guest101 wrote: »

Oh I see. Why would they employ her directly rather than via an agency though - that's the bit I don't understand.

When getting substitute teachers in the schools pay the Department from their budget and the department pays the teacher, The schools can select who they want from those on the departments books as subs. Similar to bank shifts in nursing

glentoran99

sangie595 wrote: »

I'm afraid the answer, if I am understanding your question correctly, is no. Grades are associated based on prior experience and skills. These pay scales are agreed by the Government and by the unions to protect salaries and prevent employers from driving down wages for everyone. They are not going to vary those for one person, because that would risk tearing up every negotiation and policy ever written and bring an all out action. You can't force the government to abandon national rates and policies.

I'm not familiar with NI, but if it is anything like the UK, the reason why you are expensive is because you are a supply teacher, who are generally more expensive than direct employees. I know a lot of supply teachers who do this work precisely because they get better pay than teachers on the books. You could solve the problem by getting a job directly instead of doing supply work?

Big shortage of teaching jobs over here

BorisThomson

sangie595 wrote: »

I'm afraid the answer, if I am understanding your question correctly, is no. Grades are associated based on prior experience and skills. These pay scales are agreed by the Government and by the unions to protect salaries and prevent employers from driving down wages for everyone. They are not going to vary those for one person, because that would risk tearing up every negotiation and policy ever written and bring an all out action. You can't force the government to abandon national rates and policies.

I'm not familiar with NI, but if it is anything like the UK, the reason why you are expensive is because you are a supply teacher, who are generally more expensive than direct employees. I know a lot of supply teachers who do this work precisely because they get better pay than teachers on the books. You could solve the problem by getting a job directly instead of doing supply work?

In England, supply teachers in academy schools can choose to take/ be offered a lower rate of pay. Academies are largely free to pay as they want.

sangie595

BorisThomson wrote: »

In England, supply teachers in academy schools can choose to take/ be offered a lower rate of pay. Academies are largely free to pay as they want.

Yes, independent schools have broken down a lot of the system. Was that a good thing? Because what I am seeing is huge class sizes, poor educational outcomes, and rubbish education. Doesn't change what I said. Just actually proves why it is valuable!

sangie595

glentoran99 wrote: »

Big shortage of teaching jobs over here

So allowing the breach of agreed rates fixes that? Reducing pay and conditions for everyone creates more jobs?

hyubh

sangie595 wrote: »

So allowing the breach of agreed rates fixes that? Reducing pay and conditions for everyone creates more jobs?

Ending centrally-planned price fixing isn't 'reducing pay and conditions for everyone'. The way things work in the Gosplan-run parts of the public sector look a bit bizarre from the outside.