Sainsbury's Stanmore - Win at POPLA

beamerguy

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Absolutely right to contact the CEO. I would also tell him how much you spend annually with his company if you could estimate that.

But beamer guy I really must comment that we get many more threads on here for most of the other supermarkets than Sainsbury so to draw a parallel that it's due to parking charges doesn't stack up. It's for all sorts of other reasons.

ah, what was meant was not about on here

Compared to customers shopping at Sainsbury's to say tesco and lidl, their sales have dropped

If Sainsbury's has poor customer service as the OP explained,
then they need to wake up

beamerguy

dadsma wrote: »

Beamer - thank you, that's a good idea. Yesterday the customer helpline was called. A chap named Gary refused to help with getting the charge cancelled as he says he cannot go above the store manager.

When we asked to speak with a supervisor he refused. We than asked for the name of the regional manager covering the Stanmore area - that was refused too and then Gary said he was going to put the phone down to end the call - and he did.

And all this is part of your complaint to the ceo.

Highly possible the CEO does not know he employs idiots

Tell the CEO AS IT IS

Half_way

to the original poster:
keep an accurate time sheet of how much time you are spending on this.

Humu

Dadsma - I am going through exactly the same thing with Stanmore Sainsburys. My wife slightly overstayed (15mins) although did a small midweek shop. I went into the store today with a receipt, still had it and some Muppet called Daniel (claimed to be the store manager) basically told me we had not spent enough for him to do anything about it ! The arrogance of the man was unreal, we shopped there every week, a fact he didn't seem to care about. I have been tweeted sainsburys all day and they simply say they can't cancel the ticket, which of course means they just don't want to. I am also going to email the CEO now, but not hopeful as it seems like they simply don't care about their reputation and will continue to loose customers. I may be lucky as my NTK feels like it doesn't comply with the POFA 2012.. so may just go down the appeal/Popla route.

Umkomaas

Write some bad stuff on their Facebook page, or Twitter account and see if they respond to that.

As an aside, I visited Sainsbury's yesterday after having not been there for some time. Almost everything (same product) was significantly more expensive than any of their 3 competitors - Tesco, Morrisons and Asda. Not sure they're in the best place to suddenly turn all arsey with loyal customers.

Plenty of other fish in the sea!

Coupon-mad

dadsma wrote: »

Beamer - thank you, that's a good idea. Yesterday the customer helpline was called. A chap named Gary refused to help with getting the charge cancelled as he says he cannot go above the store manager.

When we asked to speak with a supervisor he refused. We than asked for the name of the regional manager covering the Stanmore area - that was refused too and then Gary said he was going to put the phone down to end the call - and he did.

Write a complaint letter to the CEO of Sainsburys and mention the above (shocking) and use your words, they are good:

I think the 90 minute maximum would discourage overstaying. However to charge a regular customer £70 for inadvertently doing so and then offer to cancel it if they have spent greater than an unknown arbitrary amount is disgraceful in my view but we now do know that £24.74 is insufficient at that particular store.

It reminds me of the story of the playwright George Bernard Shaw and the actress Sarah Bernhardt. It goes that GBS propositioned the actress, asking whether she would sleep with him for £10,000. She said "yes". GBS then asked whether she would sleep with him for £5 to which she replied "Certainly not!, what sort of woman do you take me for?" "We have already established that" retorted the playwright, "we are simply negotiating the lowest price".

I wonder what Sainsbury's lowest price is and why it isn't published?

dadsma

Meanwhile, the vehicle's hirer has appealed to POPLA. The first appeal point and ECP's response follows. POPLA have invited the hirer to comment. I would be very grateful for the forum experts opinions to pass on to the hirer.

POPLA Appeal Point 1.

1. Euro Car Parks failed to meet the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA - A compliant Notice to Keeper or Hirer was never served on me - No keeper or hirer liability can apply

1a. Failure to deliver a compliant Notice to Hirer

In order to rely upon POFA to be able to hold me liable in my capacity as the vehicle’s hirer, Euro Car Parks Ltd. had to deliver a Notice to Hirer that fully met all of POFA’s strict requirements.

The relevant provisions concerning hire vehicles are set out in Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 of POFA; the conditions that the Creditor must meet in order to be able to hold the hirer liable for the charge are set out in Paragraph 14.

Paragraph 14(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of POFA specifies that in addition to delivering a Notice to Hirer within the relevant period, the Creditor must also provide the hirer with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) (i.e. (a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b) a copy of the hire agreement; and (c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement), together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper (i.e. the notice that had originally been sent to the lease company (as Registered Keeper)).

Paragraph 14(5) specifies that the Notice to Hirer must:
(a) inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer;
(b) refer the hirer to the information contained in the notice to keeper;
(c) warn the hirer that if, after the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to hirer is given, the amount of unpaid parking charges referred to in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(f) or 9(2)(f) (as the case may be) has not been paid in full, the creditor will (if any applicable requirements are met) have the right to recover from the hirer so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(d) inform the hirer of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;
(e) identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment may be made; and
(f) specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

Despite being provided with my details as the vehicle’s hirer, Euro Car Parks Ltd failed to deliver a Notice to Hirer (compliant or otherwise) to me within the relevant period specified within Schedule 4 of POFA.

Given its failure to comply with the requirements of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 of POFA as detailed above,Euro Car Parks Ltd’s claim against me (in my capacity as the vehicle’s hirer) must be determined as being invalid.

1b. Failure to deliver a compliant Notice to Keeper

Schedule 4 of POFA defines “keeper” as meaning the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper. In this case the contrary has been proved; in addition to being the vehicle’s hirer, I am also its keeper.

Given that it has been proven that Lex was not the vehicle’s keeper (as defined under Schedule 4 of POFA), there are no circumstances where Lex may be liable for this Parking Charge.

Furthermore, given that Euro Car Parks Ltd did not deliver a Notice to Keeper to me within the relevant period specified under Schedule 4 of POFA, Euro Car Parks Ltd has no valid claim against me (in my capacity as the vehicle's keeper).

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Here is Euro Car Parks evidence to POPLA who have invited the appellant to comment. I would welcome the forum’s expert opinions as I am sure it will be interesting and helpful;


"Registered Keeper Details and Liability Trail

Parking Charge Notice (PCN) xxxxxxxxx was issued on the xx/xx/2017 (date of event). As the car park is camera controlled the vehicle details were forwarded to the DVLA to obtain the registered keepers details. The DVLA had provided the following details as the registered keeper;

Lex Autolease Ltd , Blake House, Hatchford Way, Birmingham, B26 3RZ

Mr X then appealed the PCN and refused to name the driver on the day in question. As Mr X did not provide the full name of the driver the liability remains with Mr X as the hirer of the vehicle. Mr X also confirmed to be the keeper of the vehicle.

Our PCN (Parking Charge Notice) is the first communication with the registered keeper – this is referred to as the Notice to Keeper or Notice to Owner

The PCN (NTK/NTO) has been checked by both the BPA and the IPC and we have confirmation that our PCN (NTK/NTO) and has been approved as compliant with POFA

The PCN (NTK/NTO) has been checked by Gladstones Solicitors who specialise in assisting private car park operators – legal advice and pre legal advice with regards signage and adhering to POFA and both code of practice

Please be advised once the registered keeper has been sent the PCN (NTK/NTO) if there is no response, payment, appeal, serviceable address of the driver – ECP process a Notice To Keeper – this is a “reminder letter” and sent in reference to the PCN (NTK/NTO) that has not been responded to.

If we are in receipt of a serviceable address of the driver – the PCN (NTK/NTO) is re-issued

If the registered keeper is in receipt of the PCN (NTK/NTO) and has passed to the driver and the driver appeals – we will respond to the appeal strictly following the code and ensure any/all communication is sent to the driver (we would not at this stage re-issue the PCN)

We have been advised that the above is standard practice for all private car park operators in regards to PCN (NTK/NTO) issued on Automatic Number Plate Recognition car parks

..The PCN was to the lease company who is the registered keeper. Their details have been provided by the DVLA. Mr X received the PCN through the lease company and decided to appeal the notice.

The lease company did not appeal the PCN requesting to transfer the liability and therefore did not provide a copy of the hire agreement.

Mr X confirmed to be the keeper of the vehicle, however he refused to provide the name of the driver. Therefore the liability remains with him as the keeper of the vehicle/hirer.

Euro Car Parks do not need to provide evidence of who was driving the vehicle, it is the registered keeper’s/hirer’s responsibility to inform them of the full name and address within 28 days beginning with the day after the notice was given.

If the full amount remains unpaid, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘The Act’), Euro Car Parks have the right subject of the Act to recover from the keeper of the vehicle at the time it was parked so much of that amount which remains unpaid."

dadsma

I would be very interested to get Edna Basher's and C-M's opinion on post #18 if possible.

Ralph-y

I think C-M is away at the min ......

Ralph:cool:

happybagger

I went on a photo evidence gathering trip yesterday to home bargains and as I crossed a Morrison's car park run by Euro Car Parks (recent change) I was struck by the illegibility of their signs. They were 9ft above ground and the very small print was bright red print on a bright yellow sign.

I have excellent corrected vision and could not read it.

Is it the same at this location?