Forced sleep ins

dawyldthing

https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/LGA%20briefing%20on%20payment%20of%20sleep-in%20shifts%20in%20social%20care_August%202017.pdf
Sounds like we will hear more in October but it's being challenged next March. Will be interesting to see what happens

dawyldthing

They do get a lot more in than what they are paying out. I think one I've just read said it should be £60 a shift, so they would still make £10 per sleep in profit, which admittedly isn't a lot but hourly it's around £5 odd an hour per hour worked so it adds up (minus the outgoing so though). Pensions should be seperate but I think there's a lot of black holes in pensions as no ones really paying in what they get out.

sangie595

dawyldthing wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/Mencap/posts/10155647573626354:0

Just seen this which goes with what you say sangie. So if they do decide to back pay how long will it take? As if it all has to be minimum wage, paid back over 6 years I recogn I could be due a very tidy sum indeed. Interesting they are paying national minimum wage now though as we still aren't. It's been increased a bit but still not near minimum wage

In that case you and your colleagues may wish to have a discussion about why they are breaking the law?

To be honest, I suspect that the ruling may compromise. Iniquitous though the system of not paying was, the employers were, to the best of their knowledge, complying with the law as it stood at that time. There have been similar cases in the past where some back pay was agreed, but not back six years. However, anyone who isn't now paying is likely to get less sympathy given that the law is now clear on this matter.

mac.d

AFAIK, even with care companies that are willing to follow the ruling, the full payments aren't going to be made until such time as the local council agrees additional funding. And this is now on hold until September at least as they try and figure out how it is meant to be paid.

The other options the councils are looking at is removing sleep-ins from some services (that is what is feared, and in some cases already happened, as per the BBC link dawdlything' posted).

Savvy_Sue

Jacksmum26 wrote: »

Our union rep isn't available for another week ( holiday )

If it's urgent, contact your regional or head office and ask for advice.

dawyldthing

I don't think they should be fined but it would be nice if they did back pay it as I know where I am they could have paid the right rate but kept it as profit. Yeah I could have upset the apple cart but was just thankful for a job. If they do back pay it I won't be saying no to it as it will run into several thousands if over the whole 6 years. Even now we're not getting hourly rate just an increase in sleep in pay, but I gathered something must have been happening. (I don't work for mencap, just came across the link but had a look on my employers page and they too have something up about it so will be interesting following it.)

sangie595

mac.d wrote: »

AFAIK, even with care companies that are willing to follow the ruling, the full payments aren't going to be made until such time as the local council agrees additional funding. And this is now on hold until September at least as they try and figure out how it is meant to be paid.

The other options the councils are looking at is removing sleep-ins from some services (that is what is feared, and in some cases already happened, as per the BBC link dawdlything' posted).

Unless the Council happens to be care provider (which is very often not the case now) then they are not going to agree additional funding. They are not the employer. They are a commissioner of services and the fact that the companies were found to be paying below the legal requirement is nothing to do with them. Commissioning sets the expected delivery outcomes and the price - not how a company chooses to implement the delivery itself. No council is going to pay extra to these companies unless the government sets aside money specifically for this purpose. Nor should they. After all, you wouldn't be expecting to get an extra bill from Sports Direct for those sneakers you bought two years ago on the basis that the price was based on them not paying their employees properly, would you? This is no different - it is a paid for product just like any other.

paddedjohn

sangie595 wrote: »

Can they force you to do this? The short answer is yes. If you have less than two years service, then you do it or you get dismissed. If you have more than two years, you will do it or else, at best, you will be made redundant. At worst they might enforce contractual changes because these are necessary changes to manage the business. In the end, the requirements of the service are what sustain the employment. The availability or desired work location of employees will never trump that. This will happen. The only question is whether you will still have a job when it does. If you cannot commit to these changes, then the least painful option for you is to get another job.

As others have stated, you would have to be paid at least the minimum wage for any sleep over shifts.

How can hey be made redundant when the job still exists?

sangie595

paddedjohn wrote: »

How can hey be made redundant when the job still exists?

Because the job doesn't exist! There used to be a job that was "caring with no sleep overs in X location". The new job is "caring with sleepovers in Y location". Different job. Redundancy. Potentially. Although the employer might then claim the new jobs are suitable alternatives and refuse redundancy pay if people refuse them. And that might be correct - they might be suitable alternatives.

fraserbooks

When I did sleep ins as a qualified nurse in a nursing home I was paid £50.00 for the sleep in plus two extra hours until 11 p.m. and one hour after 6 a.m. on full pay when we were expected to be awake. We also got full pay for any wake up call if the emergency lasted more than an hour. You need to make sure they give you the next day off. We got an extra afternoon off a week to make up for the waking hours.

The mencap link was interesting. I can imagine that waking night staff would be upset if their colleagues were paid the same for sleeping. Some nursing agencies will only supply waking night staff so I have been in the position of having a sleeping agency being paid more than me for running a home at night.