Forced sleep ins

Jacksmum26

I work in a care setting at the moment we have waking nights and shift patterns, our manager has taken on a new service that has sleep ins that don't count towards your contracted hours - so for example I am contracted to 30 hours a week and pick up over time as needed. But we have been informed they are not only changing where we work but that we now HAVE to do sleep ins and these will not be included in our hours, so if I do 2 sleep ins I will still need to do my 30 hours in the week as well as the sleep ins. When I started the job I didn't agree to sleep ins, can they now force us to do sleep ins and change our shifts like this? We all have out side commitments so doing an extra 10-20 away from home every week is causing us all a lot of worry and stress.
Our union rep isn't available for another week ( holiday )
Can any one give us some advice? This is causing so much stress that I'm worried people will just walk.

Any advice would be great before we all have a melt down

gettingtheresometime

Wasn't there a ruling recently whereby staff could claim back pay for sleep ins where previously they hadn't been paid?


Wouldn't your employer's stance go against this?


I don't know much about this so sorry if I've mudded the waters) but I'm sure that someone with far better knowledge will answer shortly

molerat

The ruling was over pay but the situation is still unclear. Forcing you to do sleep ins on top of your contracted hours is a contractual situation. Being paid for it is an employment law matter.

http://www.tayloremmet.co.uk/blogsite/should-workers-be-paid-to-sleep/
but
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/2017/07/26/government-bows-care-provider-pressure-sleep-payments/

mac.d

I think they can change where you work depending on the needs of the service, and there's nothing you can do about that. Who is going to be doing the waking night shifts where you are currently working though? Is everyone who works there being moved to the new service? There should be some allowances made so you can cut your contracted hours if you are going to be doing sleep-ins instead.

You will get paid for the sleep-ins, even though it won't be part of your contracted hours. I think there are lots of variances in the way people are being paid for sleep-ins, and it also depends on what has been agreed with the local council, but you will still get paid for doing them.

sangie595

Can they force you to do this? The short answer is yes. If you have less than two years service, then you do it or you get dismissed. If you have more than two years, you will do it or else, at best, you will be made redundant. At worst they might enforce contractual changes because these are necessary changes to manage the business. In the end, the requirements of the service are what sustain the employment. The availability or desired work location of employees will never trump that. This will happen. The only question is whether you will still have a job when it does. If you cannot commit to these changes, then the least painful option for you is to get another job.

As others have stated, you would have to be paid at least the minimum wage for any sleep over shifts.

dawyldthing

Ive done sleep ins for a number of years. They've recently increased but they aren't part of your core hours as you don't get paid hourly but get a set rate. I should imagine you'll all dib up in until it's fully recruited to be honest

dawyldthing

sangie595 wrote: »

Can they force you to do this? The short answer is yes. If you have less than two years service, then you do it or you get dismissed. If you have more than two years, you will do it or else, at best, you will be made redundant. At worst they might enforce contractual changes because these are necessary changes to manage the business. In the end, the requirements of the service are what sustain the employment. The availability or desired work location of employees will never trump that. This will happen. The only question is whether you will still have a job when it does. If you cannot commit to these changes, then the least painful option for you is to get another job.

As others have stated, you would have to be paid at least the minimum wage for any sleep over shifts.

It's still going through. As far as I know it's still being challenged by care providers as many of us have 9 hour 'sleeps' but in reality get paid around 5 hours for it. They have increased it a fair amount to be fair though

sangie595

dawyldthing wrote: »

It's still going through. As far as I know it's still being challenged by care providers as many of us have 9 hour 'sleeps' but in reality get paid around 5 hours for it. They have increased it a fair amount to be fair though

An EAT has ruled. In 2013. It cannot now be appealed, and so it is law. The "challenges" are whines by the care providers to the gov't. Nothing more. This is law. Until the law is changed it remains law and people are entitled by law to at least the minimum wage. The reason why it is back in the headlines is because HRMC started to enforce the law, as is their remit. The government have agreed a temporary stay of the enforcement - which means fines handed down by HMRC for breaking the wages laws.

As for any employer who is not paying their employees for sleep ins, they are breaking the law and the usual recourse is available to them where an employer had failed to pay what they owe.

The only matter that is currently still subject to ongoing cases related to the entitlement to back pay. The primary case, against MENCAP will now not proceed as they have reached agreements with the union. The second one was referred back to the tribunal. As far as I am aware, there are no other cases pending.

The only way that an employer can claim exception is if the total paid to staff amounts to at least the NMW/ living wage across all the hours worked, including the sleep ins. That would satisfy the requirements of the law. So if the employers want to pay significantly higher wages, then they can avoid having to pay for sleep ins. I doubt they'll be doing that.

dawyldthing

https://www.facebook.com/Mencap/posts/10155647573626354:0

Just seen this which goes with what you say sangie. So if they do decide to back pay how long will it take? As if it all has to be minimum wage, paid back over 6 years I recogn I could be due a very tidy sum indeed. Interesting they are paying national minimum wage now though as we still aren't. It's been increased a bit but still not near minimum wage

dawyldthing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40648952

Due in September chricks it would be like winning the lotto if it's in one go

elsien

The problem is that many local authorities aren't paying providers the extra. And nice though it would be to get the back pay, I'm more concerned about my pension - I seem to recall mencap had a bit of a black hole in their pension plan not long ago and as my time there was on the final salary scheme I'd hate to see it go down the pan if their budget goes completely up the Swanee.