Gift from father to son

katy123

Grandad wants to gift a house (not main resident) to his eldest son (there are 2 sons). The other son has already (many years ago) received a property. As grandad is in his 80's, and wish to make this gift, how can dad protect himself in case grandad dies and the other son claim it was a forced gift? I understand about being a PET and there is no mortgage on the house. It's a simple TR1 form I think, but is there an addition step to prevent a potentioal accusation from the other brother? THanks

Thrugelmir

They'll be a potential CGT liability to be settled. Even if the consideration is zero. Seek advice.

katy123

Thrugelmir wrote: »

They'll be a potential CGT liability to be settled. Even if the consideration is zero. Seek advice.

No CGT, just change PPR (a couple of mains ago) was main resident.

00ec25

so this is the same property you were asking about 2 weeks ago:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5695251

your father can't "protect" himself from sibling bitterness

one approach would be for GF to write a letter explaining exactly what he has done and why and send it to both his sons, then if they fall out they can wave it in each other's faces in court as "evidence"

BTW, yes GF won't face CGT, but your father will. You still haven't grasped how CGT works and as GF will continue living there it is not a PET, it is a GWR - although you say GF's estate is not above the IHT threshold so tax may never be payable. But don't make the mistake of assuming it is outside GF's estate after 7 years, it won't be.

G_M

Why does he not simply write a will, leaving this property to his son (and explaining why). He can then split the rest of his Estate equally between all the sons (daughters, grandchildren whatever).

If a solicitor draws up the will there is unlikely to be a successful challenge by the other son.

As 00ec25 says, gifting it now 'with reservation' (ie still living there) means the property will be included in his estate for IHT purpises either way.

katy123

00ec25 wrote: »

so this is the same property you were asking about 2 weeks ago:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5695251

your father can't "protect" himself from sibling bitterness

one approach would be for GF to write a letter explaining exactly what he has done and why and send it to both his sons, then if they fall out they can wave it in each other's faces in court as "evidence"

BTW, yes GF won't face CGT, but your father will. You still haven't grasped how CGT works and as GF will continue living there it is not a PET, it is a GWR - although you say GF's estate is not above the IHT threshold so tax may never be payable. But don't make the mistake of assuming it is outside GF's estate after 7 years, it won't be.

Writing a letter is a good idea. I like that, thanks.

katy123

G_M wrote: »

Why does he not simply write a will, leaving this property to his son (and explaining why). He can then split the rest of his Estate equally between all the sons (daughters, grandchildren whatever).

If a solicitor draws up the will there is unlikely to be a successful challenge by the other son.

As 00ec25 says, gifting it now 'with reservation' (ie still living there) means the property will be included in his estate for IHT purpises either way.

The other brother will no doubt try to get GF to write a new will in the future (there's always that risk, esp when mentally not sound). My grandad has made it very clear that he wants to make the gift, I just want to know what viable options there are that I can discuss with the solicitor when we come to the transfer. Some solicitors can't think on their feet and need a bit of help, hence I'm exploring possible options. Just like to walk into room knowing all the exits You guys have been great, thanks.

katy123

better still, we'll get solicitor to sign the letter as witness of GF's letter.

phillw

katy123 wrote: »

but is there an addition step to prevent a potentioal accusation from the other brother?

Get the other brother to be a witness to the transfer. If he's already hostile then there isn't much you can do.

If there was a simple trick then people would use it to protect when they do use undue influence.

davidmcn

Grandfather instructing a solicitor (and solicitor witnessing the deed(s)) would be sensible, but you can't really prevent the possibility of an accusation. Is it likely anyway? These things are expensive to pursue and unlikely to succeed unless it had actually happened.

macman

katy123 wrote: »

The other brother will no doubt try to get GF to write a new will in the future (there's always that risk, esp when mentally not sound). My grandad has made it very clear that he wants to make the gift, I just want to know what viable options there are that I can discuss with the solicitor when we come to the transfer. Some solicitors can't think on their feet and need a bit of help, hence I'm exploring possible options. Just like to walk into room knowing all the exits You guys have been great, thanks.

If your grandfather is mentally ill then he will not be able to make a will anyway, as the solicitor, if aware of that, would consider him unable to consent to the will. If he does one himself, then the potential witnessses should also refuse to sign it for the same reason.