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Court Summons for no car tax but couldn't tax car?
Hi,
I am re-posting this question as I do not believe it was well received due the readability of it and lack of useful information. Hopefully this attempt on re-asking the question might be better suited to clarify my question and getting the feedback or answers that I would like.
In short, my question is if I should I plead guilty or not guilty for the offence of being the registered keeper of an unlicensed vehicle for the period of March 2016 to March 2017. If I plead guilty, I may be liable to a 33% reduction of ‘any’ fine and do not have to attend a hearing. If I plead not guilty, I will have to attend a hearing in person and my best estimated guess is that if I am found guilty ‘any’ fines go up rather than down.
The reason I did not tax nor SORN the car was that I was unable to do so since I did not have a logbook for it or a valid V5C number. I did not obtain my own logbook because up until this year as it seems I was not the registered keeper of the car. The best way I can clarity is give a timeline view below.
August 2015
I think I got this wrong in the original post, but after reviewing some documents I have clarified that I purchased the car at the beginning of August 2015. I bought the car from a ‘mutual’ friend on Facebook (someone I didn’t really personally know but had other social connections with). It was nothing out the ordinary car purchase, simply hand over money, complete documents, get V5C slip and drive off.
The tax laws had already changed meaning that new owners where required to purchase their own taxes for new car purchases rather than carrying on using the previous owners tax until it expired. So, I purchased tax for the car immediately by using the number on the V5C slip. With the new DVLA online system I opted to paying my car tax monthly.
November 2015
At November time, I become concerned because I did not receive a confirmation from the DVLA of being the new owner of the car or a log book for it. I contacted the seller who assured me that he sent everything immediately. After knowing this and due to already paying for my tax, insurance and so on for ‘my’ car lawfully I assumed to just wait a little longer and that the documents were still being processed.
January 2016
I made a mistake in January that resulted in me looking to attend court for a ban in 16th February.
February 2016
On the 16th February, I was banned from driving for 15 months. Due to the length of this time, I decided it was best that I got rid of the car. My insurance was still valid for another month, and coincidentally my monthly tax date was taken on the 16th of every month, therefore meaning I had car tax valid until the 16th March. I couldn’t drive the car myself due to the ban but my dad was insured on the car too. The plan was for me to either sell the car or scrap it. I was unable to SORN the car at my house due to the area being residential parking only, therefore public road.
I decided then to cancel the direct debit with my bank for the car tax. However, only after preparing what I needed to get rid of the car did I then realise I still had not received the logbook for the car. I contacted the DVLA and asked if I was the registered keeper of the car (in case the documents were sent out and I needed to request for new copies as I hadn’t received them) to which the reply was ‘no’. The woman who spoke to me from the DVLA instructed me that to get a logbook for the car I need to complete a V62 Form and send it along with the slip. After the conversation, I contacted the seller who was in total disbelief. At this point I would not be in my right mind to have any belief that the documents were indeed processing.
Before I sent the V5C slip, I wanted to tax the car again or at the very least SORN it as I knew my tax run out on the 16th March and if I didn’t get the logbook in time I wouldn’t be able to do anything with the car. My company is a massive warehouse and land-space so after enquiring with my boss if I could store the car there since it’s private property, I could legally SORN it. After confirming this was okay I attempted to re-purchase tax for the car using the same V5C slip. However, this number now did not work for whatever reason. I am not sure if was because of duration of time or if the number is intended to be used only once. I was not able to tax the car or SORN it using the number on the V5C, meaning I now had no means to do anything with the car.
March / April 2016
The seller now gets in contact with me because the DVLA contacted him about having a car unlicensed. He was supposedly told a court date and claiming he had to pay ‘some fee’s’. I told him I had already sent my V5C as I wanted to get rid of the car, and asked again if he was sure he sent the documents immediately. Once more he promised so and then we left it there. I never heard from him again.
January 2017
After a long stretch of time I got a letter from the DVLA of my car being reported abandoned and that it was unlicensed. The key here being that now the DVLA recognised the car was mine. I wrote back to the DVLA as required from the letter explaining to them the whole situation. I still received nothing, but was now confused as something must have happened for the DVLA to recognise I was the owner of the car.
March 2017
The DVLA tolled and crushed the car. No reply from the DVLA regarding their enquiry nor any documents for the car.
Now
I received the court summons that I am enquiring about now. Reviewing the documents, the vehicles mainfile enquiry sheet shows that the period I did drive and tax the car I was not registered as a new keeper (or at least that’s what I think ‘New Keep’ means on the table). After sending the V5C, I am not sure of what other actions I could have taken to get ownership of the car and documents to get rid of it. I honestly have no idea how suddenly the car was registered.
Soo the you have it, I hope I explained much as possible. Thank you for your time reading this and replies.
Questions
1) Based on my case, would it be better to plead guilty or not guilty?
2) If guilty or not guilty, what sources of evidence and support factors should I add to my case?
I am re-posting this question as I do not believe it was well received due the readability of it and lack of useful information. Hopefully this attempt on re-asking the question might be better suited to clarify my question and getting the feedback or answers that I would like.
In short, my question is if I should I plead guilty or not guilty for the offence of being the registered keeper of an unlicensed vehicle for the period of March 2016 to March 2017. If I plead guilty, I may be liable to a 33% reduction of ‘any’ fine and do not have to attend a hearing. If I plead not guilty, I will have to attend a hearing in person and my best estimated guess is that if I am found guilty ‘any’ fines go up rather than down.
The reason I did not tax nor SORN the car was that I was unable to do so since I did not have a logbook for it or a valid V5C number. I did not obtain my own logbook because up until this year as it seems I was not the registered keeper of the car. The best way I can clarity is give a timeline view below.
August 2015
I think I got this wrong in the original post, but after reviewing some documents I have clarified that I purchased the car at the beginning of August 2015. I bought the car from a ‘mutual’ friend on Facebook (someone I didn’t really personally know but had other social connections with). It was nothing out the ordinary car purchase, simply hand over money, complete documents, get V5C slip and drive off.
The tax laws had already changed meaning that new owners where required to purchase their own taxes for new car purchases rather than carrying on using the previous owners tax until it expired. So, I purchased tax for the car immediately by using the number on the V5C slip. With the new DVLA online system I opted to paying my car tax monthly.
November 2015
At November time, I become concerned because I did not receive a confirmation from the DVLA of being the new owner of the car or a log book for it. I contacted the seller who assured me that he sent everything immediately. After knowing this and due to already paying for my tax, insurance and so on for ‘my’ car lawfully I assumed to just wait a little longer and that the documents were still being processed.
January 2016
I made a mistake in January that resulted in me looking to attend court for a ban in 16th February.
February 2016
On the 16th February, I was banned from driving for 15 months. Due to the length of this time, I decided it was best that I got rid of the car. My insurance was still valid for another month, and coincidentally my monthly tax date was taken on the 16th of every month, therefore meaning I had car tax valid until the 16th March. I couldn’t drive the car myself due to the ban but my dad was insured on the car too. The plan was for me to either sell the car or scrap it. I was unable to SORN the car at my house due to the area being residential parking only, therefore public road.
I decided then to cancel the direct debit with my bank for the car tax. However, only after preparing what I needed to get rid of the car did I then realise I still had not received the logbook for the car. I contacted the DVLA and asked if I was the registered keeper of the car (in case the documents were sent out and I needed to request for new copies as I hadn’t received them) to which the reply was ‘no’. The woman who spoke to me from the DVLA instructed me that to get a logbook for the car I need to complete a V62 Form and send it along with the slip. After the conversation, I contacted the seller who was in total disbelief. At this point I would not be in my right mind to have any belief that the documents were indeed processing.
Before I sent the V5C slip, I wanted to tax the car again or at the very least SORN it as I knew my tax run out on the 16th March and if I didn’t get the logbook in time I wouldn’t be able to do anything with the car. My company is a massive warehouse and land-space so after enquiring with my boss if I could store the car there since it’s private property, I could legally SORN it. After confirming this was okay I attempted to re-purchase tax for the car using the same V5C slip. However, this number now did not work for whatever reason. I am not sure if was because of duration of time or if the number is intended to be used only once. I was not able to tax the car or SORN it using the number on the V5C, meaning I now had no means to do anything with the car.
March / April 2016
The seller now gets in contact with me because the DVLA contacted him about having a car unlicensed. He was supposedly told a court date and claiming he had to pay ‘some fee’s’. I told him I had already sent my V5C as I wanted to get rid of the car, and asked again if he was sure he sent the documents immediately. Once more he promised so and then we left it there. I never heard from him again.
January 2017
After a long stretch of time I got a letter from the DVLA of my car being reported abandoned and that it was unlicensed. The key here being that now the DVLA recognised the car was mine. I wrote back to the DVLA as required from the letter explaining to them the whole situation. I still received nothing, but was now confused as something must have happened for the DVLA to recognise I was the owner of the car.
March 2017
The DVLA tolled and crushed the car. No reply from the DVLA regarding their enquiry nor any documents for the car.
Now
I received the court summons that I am enquiring about now. Reviewing the documents, the vehicles mainfile enquiry sheet shows that the period I did drive and tax the car I was not registered as a new keeper (or at least that’s what I think ‘New Keep’ means on the table). After sending the V5C, I am not sure of what other actions I could have taken to get ownership of the car and documents to get rid of it. I honestly have no idea how suddenly the car was registered.
Soo the you have it, I hope I explained much as possible. Thank you for your time reading this and replies.
Questions
1) Based on my case, would it be better to plead guilty or not guilty?
2) If guilty or not guilty, what sources of evidence and support factors should I add to my case?
0
Comments
-
A heck of a lot of your post must have been going awol over an extended period.0
-
You have a summons so don't ignore it!
If you intend a not guilty plea then sort out your defence - it's very difficult to follow!0 -
It was not impossible to tax the car because you did tax it and then you cancelled it. Better defence required.Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...0
-
I didn't follow any of this.
"Yes but...no but...yes but"0 -
You cancelled the tax, but didn't SORN it?
If so. Guilty. Case closed.
Your calamitous attempts to re-tax the vehicle are irrelevent.
Sorry but you need to suck it up and pay the fine.Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.0 -
Alright, so I have a weird one. Basically I have been summoned to court for a Golf car that i owned but was unable to tax for one year (£235) plus court fees (£85+) for the period of March 2016 - March 2017.
Thanks,
I would assume the fine would be at least a few hundred pounds on top of that. But you deserve it.0 -
Deserve it? Please clarify why so?0
-
I forgot to include in the initial post but I actually attempt to sorn the car as well. You still need a valid number from your log book or V5C to do so which as said I did not. It was impossible for me to SORN or re-tax the car.
Thanks,0 -
Let's re-state the timeline, shall we?I forgot to include in the initial post but I actually attempt to sorn the car as well. You still need a valid number from your log book or V5C to do so which as said I did not. It was impossible for me to SORN or re-tax the car.
You bought the car in Nov 15. You taxed it with the V5C/2.
You never received a V5C in your name, but did nothing.
You then cancelled the tax DD in Feb 16, tried to sell the car... and discovered you were missing the V5C.
You sent the V5C/2 and V62 in. DVLA registered it in your name.
You never received the V5C, but did nothing.
You then... forgot all about it.
The car was discovered abandoned in March 17 (I presume), and crushed.
Now, you don't once mention whether you DID sell it, whether for scrap or not, or when.
Nothing you've said suggests any kind of defence to being the keeper of an untaxed, unSORNed car from March 16 to March 17 - because you undoubtedly were. You admit as much. This is entirely down to your chaotic personal administration.0 -
I forgot to include in the initial post but I actually attempt to sorn the car as well. You still need a valid number from your log book or V5C to do so which as said I did not. It was impossible for me to SORN or re-tax the car.
Thanks,
No you don't, you walk into post office fill in form job done,0
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