Working with the boss I've reported for bullying

madmuvva

Hi all, I have just put in a formal grievance against my line manager for bullying. I have been off work for 4 weeks with work related stress and am still having the odd panic attack. I have been prescribed sleeping tablets as I am suffering with depression which has arisen from the stress.

At my back to work meeting the only options I was given was to be "big and brave" or to move to do a different job, which is still a direct report to the manager I have lodged a formal grievance about. They also said that as I am not at risk of physical harm, they won't move me to another department.

They have said that during the investigation and my phased return to work plan, I can escalate any concerns to another manager, who I don't really know that well. As the bullying has been subtle (generally by exclusion) and built up over a few months I don't really feel I can go to this other manager and say "X looked at me in a horrible way"!

I am seriously contemplating being off sick next week as I really don't know how to handle this and don't want more panic attacks. I should imagine that boss knows they will be investigated.

I have recently found out that there is also another employee who has also raised a formal grievance against this manager. She is happy to go back to work and look to manager B for support (she already works closely with him).

Any help or advice? Please? Do I have any other options? Can they essentially force me to work with the person I've accused of bullying me?

pinkshoes

Be big and brave?

This manager is a human being, who just happens to also be a bully.

You need to learn to stand up to bullies and not let them get to you, as obviously this is only verbal bullying.

Once the manager sees you will not be bullied, he will have no choice but to stop.

madmuvva

pinkshoes wrote: »

Be big and brave?

Suggesting that to not want to work with a bully is weak and cowardly?!?!

obviously this is only verbal bullying.

Verbal bullying is still bullying and completely unacceptable in the workplace. Actually, I would say unacceptable anywhere but I'm specifically talking about work.

Once the manager sees you will not be bullied, he will have no choice but to stop.

It doesn't quite work that way, or I wouldn't be going down the formal grievance route.

sangie595

madmuvva wrote: »

Hi all, I have just put in a formal grievance against my line manager for bullying. I have been off work for 4 weeks with work related stress and am still having the odd panic attack. I have been prescribed sleeping tablets as I am suffering with depression which has arisen from the stress.

At my back to work meeting the only options I was given was to be "big and brave" or to move to do a different job, which is still a direct report to the manager I have lodged a formal grievance about. They also said that as I am not at risk of physical harm, they won't move to to another department.

They have said that during the investigation and my phased return to work plan, I can escalate any concerns to another manager, who I don't really know that well. As the bullying has been subtle (generally by exclusion) and built up over a few months I don't really feel I can go to this other manager and say "X looked at me in a horrible way"!

I am seriously contemplating being off sick next week as I really don't know how to handle this and don't want more panic attacks. I should imagine that boss knows they will be investigated.

I have recently found out that there is also another employee who has also raised a formal grievance against this manager. She is happy to go back to work and look to management B for support.

Any help or advice? Please? Do I have any other options? Can they essentially force me to work with the person I've accused of bullying me?

I am afraid I agree with Pinkshoes. You also can't exactly go to a tribunal (not that there is a specific claim for bullying anyway) and say that the manager looked at you in a horrible way. Because yes, they can insist that you work with this person _ whether they decide to move the manager is up to the employer even if they decide that they agree with you. Because I am afraid that the employer is going to struggle with "they looked at me funny" too. If that is the sum of the evidence against this manager, then neither of you will get anything from this. Twenty people who are claiming that they are being looked at funny wouldn't make a jot of difference - people cannot be hung for the way that they look at someone. Possibly just as well really, or else I would have been hung a long time ago.

To me, the options are that you either accept that you are returning to work and manage that situation; or you start looking for another job now. Because I can guarantee you one thing - if you keep putting off your return to work, then you will never go back. I've seen that happen too many times. You build up the return to work more and more so that just the thought of going back is worse than anything that might actually happen. And the longer you are off sick, the more likely that is to impact on your being able to get another job - prospective employers look askance at lengthy sick leave anyway, but stress related (and especially work related) are hard to explain to them in a way that doesn't say that they don't want the same trouble with you. It may not be fair, but I am afraid it is often true.

madmuvva

Hi both, thanks for your replies. The bullying arose after I did a specific piece of work. My manager stopped giving me work and excluded me in meetings which directly involved my workflow. The only task I have been asked to do was to empty her bin. When I reduced my days from 5 to 4 (to look after my disabled daughter), my manager told me "as I was putting more work on the rest of the team" that I should cover the late rota once last time (the rota fell on a not working day). She invited a colleague in on my 1:1 to ask them about a job which came under my remit and which said colleague knew nothing about. These are just a few examples. I was also told I am "on the radar" although my performance is recorded as being "professional".

I hope that puts things into a little more perspective but there is much more than this.

sangie595

madmuvva wrote: »

Suggesting that to not want to work with a bully is weak and cowardly?!?! That is not what was said.

Verbal bullying is still bullying and completely unacceptable in the workplace. Actually, I would say unacceptable anywhere but I'm specifically talking about work.

It doesn't quite work that way, or I wouldn't be going down the formal grievance route.

You are quite right. But this is an allegation of bullying, and even in employment law terms, people are not guilty until they have been "convicted". And even if the manager is taken to a disciplinary, and even if that finds in your favour, that does not mean that they (or you) will be moved anywhere. There is no right in law to come to an outcome that you want. The employer is quite within their rights, even if they agree with you, to tell the manager to stop whatever they are doing and that's that. Going down a formal route doesn't mean anything will change. IF they agree with you. Which they may not. What one person might consider bullying is not always the same thing as others do. People often complain about their managers bullying them when what they are actually doing is managing them. That isn't to say that I don't believe you - I am simply pointing out that it doesn't work quite the way you think either!

sangie595

madmuvva wrote: »

Hi both, thanks for your replies. The bullying arose after I did a specific piece of work. My manager stopped giving me work and excluded me in meetings which directly involved my workflow. The only task I have been asked to do was to empty her bin. When I reduced my days from 5 to 4 (to look after my disabled daughter), my manager told me "as I was putting more work on the rest of the team" that I had to cover a rota. She invited a colleague in on my 1:1 to ask them about a job which came under my remit and which said colleague knew nothing about. These are just a few examples. I was also told I am "on the radar" although my performance is recorded as being "professional".

I hope that puts things into a little more perspective but there is much more than this.

I'm really sorry, but the answer is no - it really doesn't make things in a little more perspective. She invited someone to come and discuss a particular piece of work? The ONLY work you have done is empty her bin? And whilst I completely understand why you have reduced your working days, doing so has indeed increased the workload for others, has it not? And what is wrong with being on a rota - you asked for a change to your job role to reduce the days of work, so why shouldn't the employer expect to be able to change something too?

Look, I am not unsympathetic. I totally get what you are saying and why you are saying it. And your manager does not sound like a particularly good "people person", and possibly not even a very nice one. But unless your employer is extremely hot on even the slightest hint of unhappy staff. there just isn't anything in this that says they need to do anything. At best, an informal word about being a bit more polite. Which in all honesty will possibly be counterproductive, because when that happens I all too often see that that is exactly what they do - until you are between their crosshairs, at which point they will get you back.

I do think that if you are going back to work at all, you need to get back to work, look her straight in the eye and be utterly normal. There is a lot of truth in what Pinkshoes said - this type of character is far more likely to back down if they see that they do not intimidate you. And even if it takes an effort on your part, it will get easier every time you do it. Don't let this sort of bad behaviour win.

madmuvva

sangie595 wrote: »

You are quite right. But this is an allegation of bullying, and even in employment law terms, people are not guilty until they have been "convicted". And even if the manager is taken to a disciplinary, and even if that finds in your favour, that does not mean that they (or you) will be moved anywhere. There is no right in law to come to an outcome that you want. The employer is quite within their rights, even if they agree with you, to tell the manager to stop whatever they are doing and that's that. Going down a formal route doesn't mean anything will change. IF they agree with you. Which they may not. What one person might consider bullying is not always the same thing as others do. People often complain about their managers bullying them when what they are actually doing is managing them. That isn't to say that I don't believe you - I am simply pointing out that it doesn't work quite the way you think either!

Agreed - I was a manager, who moved into a little admin job to see to out my working days.

I had had episodes of depression many years ago and am mindful that I don't want to go back there.

Believe me I have stood up to her on many occasions which is why I am now being excluded - unless asked to do menial tasks such as empty her bin. I guess this move to redress a work life balance and have a simpler life, hasn't quite turned out that way.

gettingtheresometime

not sure how long you've got to go until retirement but my attitude would be if you're happy paying me x just empty your bins then crack on.

sangie595

You don't have to "stand up to her" to deal with her. Or go off sick. Both are a reaction, and that tells her she's getting to you. Passive resistance. Simply let it flow over you. Ignore it entirely. If you don't care enough to let it get to you, it won't. And if it doesn't get to you, her behaviour becomes boring for her.

But you might have just put your finger on the problem. Not many people are comfortable having a former manager as their "little admin person" - or whatever the equivalent is. You know, like someone who knows the job inside out as a manager playing the second fiddle? Watching their every move? I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here. I will lay bets that her version of this is that you are the one giving her funny looks, or saying things, undermining her confidence. And there might be some truth to that too. Much as I bet you don't want to think about it that way. After all, like I said, I'd be hung if people were hung for a look! Sometimes it isn't easy trying to look like I don't want to kill an employer - or a member even! Our faces give away what we may think, even if it is just a fleeting glance. I might suggest that you think if there may, from both sides, be some fault - even if you are unaware of it. It isn't uncommon either that our nasty side (and we all have one) comes out when we are least aware it is showing. Yes, she might be trying to put you down by asking you to empty the bin (she might also have a full bin!!!), but may not even be aware of how that is perceived. But either way a cheery "Yep, I can do that" is pretty disarming whichever!

madmuvva

gettingtheresometime wrote: »

not sure how long you've got to go until retirement but my attitude would be if you're happy paying me x just empty your bins then crack on.

Haha, you're quite right. In a way. Although to clarify, it's the hostility and exclusion which is grinding.