LBCCC from PE - at Tesco store

edited 7 March 2018 at 10:10PM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
41 replies 2.7K views
parcaalparcaal Forumite
37 Posts
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Hi all, I have received a PE PCN, reminder outstanding amount letter and now LBCCC by post asking for 100£ as the keeper of a vehicle.

I have only started reading here yesterday and realised I should have reacted much quicker, but so far I have completely ignored the letters. The time for action seems to have arrived.

Situation is as follows:
Driver enters a retailer car park (used primarily by Tesco and Papa Johns) allowed for 20 min stay and stays 30 min (10 min over). I as a keeper of the vehicle have also made a purchase at Tesco of a small amount (£4) which can be proven from my bank statement.

PCN letters have following detail: address of offence, car reg and details, my details as a keeper, pictures of the car entering and exiting the car park with time/date on them.

Reminder letter has reference, address of offence, time, vehicle reg. It quotes Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) have been satisfied, so they have the right to ask the keeper for the cash. Remainder talks about involving Cred Reference Agency being involved and refer to PE vs. Beavis [2015] case.

LBCCC refers again to POFA and Schedule 4 and argues that appeal time has lapsed. Remainder talks about court proceedings and further costs to be expected and give me 14 days to pay/respond.

After discussions in the forum, I have planned the following response:

1. Complain to the retailer - Tesco team leader was very unhelpful, stating that car park and Tesco premises are separately owned. However, car park signage reminds very strongly of Tesco due to opening hours being the same as well as car par referring that customers only (not mentioning which) are allowed to park. See post #12 for details on signage.

2. Drafted the following response to PE:

Dear ParkingEye Legal Department,

Re - your Letter Before County Court Claim re PCN: XXXXXXXXXX

This is a formal response to your 'Letter before County Court Action' as the keeper of the vehicle in question. The driver's identity will not be supplied to you. There is no dispute that the driver was entitled to drive the car and I can confirm that they were. As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver.

In your 'Letter before County Court Action' you have clearly failed to take into consideration and comply with Clause 13 “Grace Periods” of the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice:

13 Grace periods
13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.


Should you seek to proceed with the court claim, this will form one part of any defence that is required should an MCOL be issued.

I expect you to now cancel this 'parking charge' and admit your non-compliance with the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice.

I expect to hear from you within 14 days to confirm that the charge is cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

(My name)

(Address)
«1345

Replies

  • FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    There is still time for the landowner/retail manager to get this cancelled, so you need to fire off a complaint to them as soon as possible.

    Other than that, get stuck into the NEWBIES while you wait for the more expert of the regulars to post here.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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  • edited 2 September 2017 at 1:34PM
    parcaalparcaal Forumite
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    edited 2 September 2017 at 1:34PM
    Yes, I have read big portion of it, will recycle a few letters and adopt them accordingly. Will share a draft later today.

    Will it be useful to get my bank statement as the vehicle keeper and I visit the retailer manager to complain?
  • edited 31 August 2017 at 8:56PM
    RedxRedx Forumite
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    edited 31 August 2017 at 8:56PM
    redact any personal info on the copy and only complain as KEEPER , not as driver

    get the landholder or MA on your side and get their request for cancellation in writing , to show any future judge that they dont have the landholders (or MA) permission

    also rebut the LBCCC in WRITING and state that they have failed to adhere to the BPA CoP clause #13 , GRACE PERIODS , where time is allowed to park up and read the signage etc , plus OVER 10 minutes is allowed for departing , subject to being able to actually leave the car park

    copy and paste the relevant section from the pdf , for clarity

    tell them that this will form one part of any defence that is required should an MCOL be issued

    ideally , email their enforcement email address with this rebuttal , but do as much as possibloe to avoid court, putting things IN WRITING and keeping copies to show any judge if an MCOL is issued

    and dont start phoning them , phone calls wont do you any good at all

    ps:- BEAVIS lost 2 years ago on an overstay in a free car park, the last one at the SUPREME COURT, so the charge for this wont wash in court, lose that idea completely
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
  • edited 31 August 2017 at 11:54PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    edited 31 August 2017 at 11:54PM
    parcaal wrote: »
    Will it be useful to get bank statement copy of the driver to present to the retailer when I visit the retailer manager to complain, or this might jeopardise the driver's identity?
    Yes take the bank statement to prove patronage, and complain to the Store Manager, not the first person on the CS desk who hasn't got any clout to cancel it.

    And email PE, don't post a letter to them ( = a black hole, no-one WRITES LETTERS to ParkingEye!):

    [email protected]

    Tell them you have complained to the retailer.

    Who is the retailer? If Aldi, PE never sue.

    If Morrisons, they do, but Morrisons Head Office cancel these if you email VERY quickly now.
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  • parcaalparcaal Forumite
    37 Posts
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Retailer was Tesco. I am drafting the email today and will post later for a review. will be based on clause 13 from BPA CoP and will email
  • edited 2 September 2017 at 1:38PM
    parcaalparcaal Forumite
    37 Posts
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 2 September 2017 at 1:38PM
    I have drafted a first version of the letter I plan to email to PE to [email protected]

    I haven't got the change to complain to the retailer yet. Will update you on this separately. I haven't added any text for it yet, but will do once I have got the chance to talk to the retailer's manager.

    Question - is it worth it posting the letter as well and holding a receipt of sending it?

    If you could proof read and advise if I have missed anything key in it, will be very much appreciated!
    Dear ParkingEye Legal Department,

    Re - your Letter Before County Court Claim re PCN: XXXXXXXXXX

    This is a formal response to your 'Letter before County Court Action' as the keeper of the vehicle in question. The driver's identity will not be supplied to you. There is no dispute that the driver was entitled to drive the car and I can confirm that they were. As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver.

    In your 'Letter before County Court Action' you have clearly failed to take into consideration and comply with Clause 13 “Grace Periods” of the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice:

    13 Grace periods
    13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
    13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
    13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.


    Should you seek to proceed with the court claim, this will form one part of any defence that is required should an MCOL be issued.

    I expect you to now cancel this 'parking charge' and admit your non-compliance with the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice.

    I expect to hear from you within 14 days to confirm that the charge is cancelled.

    Yours faithfully,

    (My name)

    (Address)
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    ParkingEye and Tesco are not usual bedfellows. Highview Parking is Tesco's preferred supplier.

    Is this a multi outlet site? If so it's more likely there will be a Managing Agent involved in contracting PE. But try Tesco first, if they are not the PE 'employer', then you may have to do some more digging.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
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  • edited 2 September 2017 at 9:48AM
    parcaalparcaal Forumite
    37 Posts
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 2 September 2017 at 9:48AM
    There are two retailers there Tesco and Papa Johns that use immediately the car park. It is a little parking site. I would expect Papa John's to be more affected due to drivers coming in and out. I will complain to both places.

    P/s, I will keep the top post updated, so people could re-use it if successful.
  • edited 2 September 2017 at 10:00AM
    The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
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    edited 2 September 2017 at 10:00AM
    You are not being charged £100 for 10 minutes parking but for breach of contract. But are the T&G of that contract fair, is it clear from their signs what the terms are? Are those terms reasonable?

    What happens if they are short staffed and their as long queues, there is a power cut, a till roll needs changing and they cannot find another one, you need to change an item?

    In many cases 20 minutes is far too short a time conclude ones business. Especially if one needs to buy multiple items.

    Anyone taking you to court over this needs their bumps read.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • parcaalparcaal Forumite
    37 Posts
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Makes sense the deep! I changed the title purely to outline the clause I will be using. I will take a picture shortly of the sign to confirm.

    I will keep you posted how my visit goes.

    In the mean time would appreciate advise on whether the letter is sound and is good to do the job. :)
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