Premier Park ANPR - 19 minutes over

Hello all,

My mother has received a PCN via post from Premier Park for being 19 minutes over the 3 hour allowed stay. Notice shows timestamped pics of my Mum's car front and back with number plate clearly showing.

I recently fought (and won) a parking charge court case with an amazing amount of help from you guys, but it was very different to this one - Mine was Millennium Parking Services, IPC, Gladstones and most importantly, Pre-POFA (from July 2012).

Premier Park are BPA and obviously POFA applies (at least until I dig up something they've done wrong to negate it)

I've been through the newbie sticky so I just want to confirm that I'm doing the right thing...

Date of offence is 5th August. PCN is dated 10th August. PPC says £100 charge. £60 if paid within 14 days (too late for that now). I can appeal to the PPC via their online appeal system.

I plan on doing that using the following template, and NOT naming the driver of the car (there are multiple people insured to drive it)

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully, xxx


So just to understand the process a bit more, I should basically expect them to reject my appeal and then I go through a POPLA appeal?

Where do we actually stand regarding appeals here? Is there anything else I need to be doing in the meantime? Do I start looking for things that Premier Park have done wrong? Anything I can find that will negate POFA?

Replies

  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    Premier Park are BPA and obviously POFA applies (at least until I dig up something they've done wrong to negate it)

    there is an issue about their words 'within 29 days' being wrong, but POPLA don't tend to agree.
    I've been through the newbie sticky so I just want to confirm that I'm doing the right thing...So just to understand the process a bit more, I should basically expect them to reject my appeal and then I go through a POPLA appeal?
    Yes and yes.

    At POPLA it's a case of copying another recent PP one, so start searching.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • JackBastaJackBasta Forumite
    112 Posts
    Just found this in the newbie thread.

    "If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to) the a postal PCN has to arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket, and between day 29 and day 57 if there was a windscreen ticket."

    It's not even 29 days since the date of offence. My mother received this about 2 weeks ago. What is this "between day 29 and day 57" about and the fact they sent the PCN so early something I can use in the appeal?
  • JackBastaJackBasta Forumite
    112 Posts
    For reference the last paragraph of the PCN looks like this.

    "We now request this amount is paid using one of the payment methods described overleaf. if within 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle"
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    No, because there was no windscreen PCN. Did it arrive within 14 days? That's OK.
    postal PCN has to arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket,

    JackBasta wrote: »
    For reference the last paragraph of the PCN looks like this.

    "We now request this amount is paid using one of the payment methods described overleaf. if within 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle"

    Yep we know, which is why I said the 'within 29 days' isn't OK but POPLA think it is.

    You would be best to simply read other PP POPLA threads first, this has all been covered before.


    JackBasta you are a legend - a court winner - and can do this again! :D
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • JackBastaJackBasta Forumite
    112 Posts
    Ha, cheers CM.

    Seems I'm up against a slightly different beast this time - Millennium/Gladstones were an absolute shower. Premier Park will be tighter. Just looking through para 9 of Sched 4 of POFA and on first glance it seems that they're compliant. The Millennium case was full of holes so big I could crawl in. I guess it stands to reason that the PPC's will have got their act together.

    No picture of the signage on the PCN. So without a trip down to that car park I don't actually know what states their signage is in. It's a pretty new car park though.

    I'll send in this PPC appeal and take it from there
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    At POPLA they are not great, their signage is terrible and they might not prove landowner contract.

    Also if you do lose at POPLA, and wonder about a claim, they are not the most prolific in court:

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Premier_Park.html

    And we still win 99% of cases here when fully forum assisted. Odds in your favour here.

    Maybe a trip to the car park is in order, to show POPLA some carefully-angled photos of your own!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • nosferatu1001nosferatu1001 Forumite
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    Within 29 can't be ok, as it ignores that it is from the date given. They dint specify this, so the consumer is left unsure.
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    Hi @nosferatu - if you're still on this thread, have you looked at the PePiPoo Flame Pit forum today? Cabbyman is trying to make contact.

    Sorry OP to jump in on this.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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