ParkingEye LBCCC - sent to my old address

e231

Also, had a reply from John Gallagher:

Dear Mr x,

Thank you for your email.

I had already reviewed the case prior to asking Emily to respond, and provided feedback on her draft response, before she sent it. I have read your further comments and I remain satisfied with the decision on your appeal.

Only a driver can enter into a parking contract. Prior to POFA 2012, it was very difficult for parking operators to prove who parked a vehicle – and motorists could avoid parking charges by claiming they were not driving. POFA 2012 introduced the concept of Keeper Liability. This allowed parking operators to transfer liability to vehicle keepers if they communicated with the keepers in the correct way, and within the correct timescales, and the keeper did not inform the parking operator of the driver (if it was not them) within set timescales.

Included in the requirements of POFA 2012 are that parking operators need to write to the keeper at a current address for service. POFA 2012 sets out that:

“current address for service” means—

(a) in the case of the keeper, an address which is either—
(i) an address at which documents relating to civil proceedings could properly be served on the person concerned under Civil Procedure Rules; or
(ii) the keeper’s registered address (if there is one);“

I am satisfied that ParkingEye met the requirements of POFA 2012 by sending the Notice to Keeper to the address you had registered with the DVLA. It was reasonable for ParkingEye to trust this as a current address because failure to update the DVLA with an address change is an offence which can be punished with a fine of up to £1000.

ParkingEye sent the notice to keeper to the address for service held by the DVLA within the required timescales. ParkingEye is not responsible for your failure to update the DVLA that you were no longer at the address. I am satisfied that ParkingEye followed the correct process to transfer liability to you, as keeper of the vehicle.

ParkingEye sent the notice to keeper on 6 July 2017 and I am satisfied that it will have been ‘given’, as defined by POFA 2012, by 11 July 2017. As you did not provide ParkingEye with the name of the driver by 9 August 2017, liability transferred to you as keeper of the vehicle.

It was after liability had transferred to you as the keeper, that ParkingEye became aware of your new address. The communications it sent after this point were misleading but did not impact the decision. ParkingEye had already followed the correct process to transfer liability to you, as keeper of the vehicle.

I note your comments about templated responses. We see many similar appeals. Even in the same parking circumstances, each appeal outcome is sensitive to the submissions of each party. However, there will be some circumstances in which, for consistency, the assessors use a response which has been approved for the circumstances. However, Emily’s response to your previous email was bespoke and answered the points you had raised. It was not a template response.

I am sorry that you are not happy with the decision but I am satisfied that it is the right decision and it will not change. We will keep further correspondence on file but as our consideration of your appeal has ended we will not respond further.

John Gallagher
Lead Adjudicator

I hate this, as yet again the blame is being put on me as though I am lazy and didn't update the vehicle address details when moving house, and as I have already said, this is not the case and I absolutely sent the DVLA the updated details in a very timely manner!!

This is SO FRUSTRATING.

I can't believe that I'm actually contemplating paying as I am getting so fed up of this. But at the same time I really don't want to out of principle, and I feel so bad after all the help you have generously given me...

Quentin

Where have you been advised to abandon pofa arguments??

pappa_golf

e231 wrote: »

Also, had a reply from John Gallagher:



I hate this, as yet again the blame is being put on me as though I am lazy and didn't update the vehicle address details when moving house, and as I have already said, this is not the case and I absolutely sent the DVLA the updated details in a very timely manner!!

This is SO FRUSTRATING.

I can't believe that I'm actually contemplating paying as I am getting so fed up of this. But at the same time I really don't want to out of principle, and I feel so bad after all the help you have generously given me...

does the date in your V5 (doc ref) reflect this?

e231

Quentin, maybe I got it wrong, it was when I asked about going to court Coupon-Mad said

Yes, probably, and you have a defendable position, the car was moved - the only sign seen was a warning inside the vets, which speaks volumes for how many complaints/customer issues they must have had!

No contract was agreed with PE, and the driver left the site (among the usual other arguments)

...So I thought that was the point she was advising I use if going to court.

Pappa Golf, good point! So bloody obvious! To recap:

The parking event happened on 28/06/17, and I am aware that the initial PCN was issued on 06/07/17. I took ownership of my new house on 30/06/17 and I subsequently moved in the day after on 01/07/17 - this was a Saturday. On the Monday, 03/07/17, as the registered keeper I sent off my V5 with the update of address details to the DVLA. As you can see, I did this ASAP as it is against the law to not do so, and also I think I did this pretty quickly!

NOW!! On my V5C document, the date that appears three times which I am presuming is the day that it was updated with my new address details, is 06/07/2017 - LOOK AT THAT, IT IS THE SAME DAY THAT THE PCN WAS ISSUED!!!! So ParkingEye got my old address pretty much just before the DVLA updated it.

Surely this is significant in their "Well, you didn't update the DVLA details, the PCN was issued correctly, pay up." answer??

The only thing is, I am getting the feeling that no one will listen to me anymore, my appeal is over and they are all against me.

Thanks so much for your continued help and advice, I can't express just how grateful I am!

:beer:

Quentin

Well........ Reread cm's post you quoted.

Note careful use of the expression "the driver left the site", thereby distinguishing the driver from the defendant!

e231

Guys.... I have paid it. _pale_

I am absolutely DISGUSTED with this case and am so incredibly sorry and angry that the great and invaluable advice you all gave (thank you all) was unable to result in a positive outcome.

I am going away for a week tomorrow, and am fed up of battling this for so many months. I was prepared to go to court, but my parents have persuaded me to pay and get it done with.

Another unfair and unjust punishment for the honest motorist. It is well and truly appalling.

RyanMirphy

Works like a dream, that tactic! *Someone* at old address writes and says ''keeper Fred Bloggs lives at new address'' and lo and behold, the case goes back to appeal stage. Nice (only happens this smoothly with ParkingEye, their one redeeming feature).

I am in a very similar situation to the original poster, I have been notified by a previous landlord that a PCN and consequent Letter Before Claim has been sent to my old address. The PCN was by HX Car Park Management Ltd and the Letter Before Claim was sent by their solicitors Gladstones.

My first thought was to ask my previous landlord to send an email similar to the one described in this thread, but I can see that this is only recommended for Parking Eye. Would anyone recommend a different course of action for HX?

In the event I should send such an email should it be sent to HX directly or to Gladstones as they have now sent a LBC?

Any help is appreciated.